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Thread: Move to Sand From DE?

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    Move to Sand From DE?

    Hey folks,

    I currently have the Hayward EC-65 DE Filter. As some of you may know, I'm redoing my whole patio area. In the past, when I went to go change the DE out of the filter, I just let the water flow out of the filter...DE and all...all over that area of the patio. But now that it's a new Patio, I won't want to do that because it creates a mess.

    So, the 2 options I have that I'm aware of is:
    1) Buy a DE Separation Tank
    2) Replace my DE filter with a sand filter.

    Both options cost about the same, however I'm leaning towards option number 2 since my filter is kind of old anyway and I've had minor leaking issues coming from the top of it (due to hairline cracks) when it's under very high pressure (like if I have only 1 return on and not both).

    Before I go this path, I wanted to hear what others thought. I understand that Sand isn't quite as good as DE as far as cleaning the smallest microbes is concerned, but will I really notice a difference? I hear you can add DE to it to help out anyway. Is there an option 3 that I'm not aware of? What would you guys do?

    Thanks!
    18 X 36 In-Ground Vinyl Pool, Hayward 1 HP SuperPump, Hayward SP270T 350lb Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC48 Salt Chlorine Generator, Hayward H400FDN 400 BTU Natural Gas Heater, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, No Main Drain

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    Can you plumb a line to carry your backwash water someplace less objectionable? I'd think you'd want that even with a sand filter.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    With the sand filter there is no mess to speak of. There is a difference in the filtration quality but a sand filter does produce acceptable water filtration. It is possible to add DE to the filter, taking care to watch the pressure guage close and not let it rise more than 1 psi when adding it. I have never had the need to try it though so really cant comment on any benifit. I think if it were me , and I was tired of the DE proccess then sand is your next best option.
    Running a backwash line will be needed, so consider that in your cost sheet.
    coloeb,
    20k gal. IG fiberglass/plaster rectangle 32'x16'
    Hayward Superpump 3/4 H.P. primary Hayward model 5060 Booster Pump
    Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    Pentair Model 320 automatic Chlorine/bromine in-line feeder

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    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Can you plumb a line to carry your backwash water someplace less objectionable? I'd think you'd want that even with a sand filter.
    Oh...darn...I didn't think Sand Filters had water extrusions like that also.
    Problem is, I don't know where to plumb it to. It's visible on top of the grass even and I think (but could be wrong) that it could even kill the grass. I've only got a 1/4 acre on my property. Hmmm....I'll have to think about that...
    18 X 36 In-Ground Vinyl Pool, Hayward 1 HP SuperPump, Hayward SP270T 350lb Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC48 Salt Chlorine Generator, Hayward H400FDN 400 BTU Natural Gas Heater, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, No Main Drain

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    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    Quote Originally Posted by coloeb
    With the sand filter there is no mess to speak of. There is a difference in the filtration quality but a sand filter does produce acceptable water filtration. It is possible to add DE to the filter, taking care to watch the pressure guage close and not let it rise more than 1 psi when adding it. I have never had the need to try it though so really cant comment on any benifit. I think if it were me , and I was tired of the DE proccess then sand is your next best option.
    Running a backwash line will be needed, so consider that in your cost sheet.

    Oh good...when you backwash, there is no mess? So the backwash line you're talking about just carries water? Can I plumb that to the lawn or will it kill the grass?

    Thanks
    18 X 36 In-Ground Vinyl Pool, Hayward 1 HP SuperPump, Hayward SP270T 350lb Sand Filter, CompuPool CPSC48 Salt Chlorine Generator, Hayward H400FDN 400 BTU Natural Gas Heater, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, No Main Drain

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    I'm not familiar with your filter but with my Pentair filter with multiport valve, i just backwash via the back wash hose. Mine is 50' long and i dump it in the ditch behind my house.
    10,000 gallon
    Viking Freeform Fiberglass Inground Pool. FNS Plus DE Filter Pentair Challenger .75hp pump

    NC KANSAS44

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    stev32k's Avatar
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    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    Quote Originally Posted by NullQwerty
    Quote Originally Posted by coloeb
    With the sand filter there is no mess to speak of. There is a difference in the filtration quality but a sand filter does produce acceptable water filtration. It is possible to add DE to the filter, taking care to watch the pressure guage close and not let it rise more than 1 psi when adding it. I have never had the need to try it though so really cant comment on any benifit. I think if it were me , and I was tired of the DE proccess then sand is your next best option.
    Running a backwash line will be needed, so consider that in your cost sheet.

    Oh good...when you backwash, there is no mess? So the backwash line you're talking about just carries water? Can I plumb that to the lawn or will it kill the grass?

    Thanks
    I drilled a series of 1/8" holes in my PVC backwash line and water grass and shrubs every time I backwash. The line runs about 260 feet to an empty field where the water evaporates. The grass and weeds in the field do not seem to be effected by the backwash water and I've never had a problem with my grass or shrubs.
    20' x 40' IG with vinyl liner volume approx. 35,000 gal.1.5 H.P. main pump, Polaris 280 cleaner W/ 3/4 H.P. booster pump
    Hayward sand filter, 3.14 sq ft, 62 gpm. Stenner 45 MPH10 chlorine feed pump. 1 micron final filter bags (home made and very effective)

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    Join Date
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    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    If you have very fine particles of stuff you can see in front of your light at night, that is possibly stuff that is so small even DE won't capture it. You can expect to see a little more of that using sand, and a little less using sand if you use a small amount of filter aid, DE or cellulose, with the sand. I'm helping my friend with her pool. She's probably going to need a new filter (currently DE that is plumbed into sewer) and I've recommended a sand filter for her pool. She doesn't have much fine stuff blowing in like I do. She has solid high, fence around whole backyard that is totally pool and decking.

    As far as backwashing, do you have a grassy area or plant beds that you could divert the water to using a roll up backwash hose? I've been using cellulose for a year now. First it doesn't deposit the DE the environment (due to the fine chalk and clay dust that blows into my pool constantly I have to backwash a lot) and the cellulose is a great soil additive. If the cellulose is colored enough from your debris you might not even see it before it dissipates into the grass.

    I'm advocating the sand for my friend as it will be the least expensive, most hassle free (no cartridge to clean and no loading of media after backwashing) and filter her water just fine, with her conditions.

    I have a Pentair Quad 80 DE filter. I use Fiber Clear, cellulose, which does filter down finer than DE. The 80 sq ft is a big filter for my 24K pool. I run pump on pretty low flow 23/7. I upsized from 36 sq ft a couple of months ago. Because of the IMMENCE amounts of fine stuff I'm still having to backwash every 7 to 10 days (my VF pump gets balky on me and constantly nags if I let the filter psi rise much over 6-8) POINT This filter uses four cartridges instead of fingers or grids so I have to clean cartridges fairly often. It that takes a lot of water and you get really wet. It is not going to be fun in the winter. So if you had thought about cartridge filter, where would the washing water and debris go?

    Virtually no one out my way uses anything other than DE because of the unique properties of our air borne powder. It gets sticky in a cartridge filter (I use cartridge for my spa and the cartridges in the Quad) and it would probably gunk up sand pretty quickly. After about a two months of using my new filter, after several back washes and one opening to hose off the cartridges, last week I had to soak the cartridges in dishwashing detergent to get them fully cleaned and my "clean filter psi" back to original condition.

    So a lot depends on what goes into your pool and how much and how much fine stuff you are willing to look at in front of your pool light at night. That is going to be different for every person and every pool.

    If a sand filter would work out here, in our extreme environment, and I was willing to tolerate more fine particles in my water I would certain opt for a sand filter.

    Some people, who have very "clean" environments can actually go months between cartridge filter cleanings. Out here it would be a weekly thing. It is for my spa cartridge and spa is covered most of the time.

    How often are you having to backwash your old DE filter? Are you willing to have just a tiny more fine particles in your pool, if you even notice them at night, and if so does it bother you? Those are the two most important things I would look at if I were replacing a filter.

    I really wish I could use a sand filter. I love the ease of use/maintenance. That would be my first choice if I had a more normal environment. I don't really like having to clean cartridges and it is hard to recapture the water used for cleaning. BTW.. I'm thinking about putting together something, using a shower pan, to drain into the 7 50 gallon water drums I have under the deck. They are emergency water storage but I think they will be put to better use collecting water off the roof and cartridge washing water. Then I'll just pump the water up to the yard to water plants and grass.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
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    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    BTW.... I don't ever let my FC get below lowest of target range but I do like to let it get down to the lowest when I backwash and then I add what amount of bleach needed to get it up to highest of target level.

    I would be more concerned with salt buildup, if using a SWG, more than anything. If you have plants and grass that can tolerate some salt, like many plants growing in coastal areas then it wouldn't be as much concern. There are some plants that can't tolerate much salt. You can see what "salts" buildup does on a potted plant container after using most synthetic fertilizers, over a period of time. After a time most many potted plants need to have the soil flushed because of build up. On clay pots you will see the buildup around bottom and inside the rim and pot water catcher. With synthetic materials you will see it around the inside of rim and any pot water catcher you have under it.

    If you have enough water going to the area via watering and rain it would be less a problem, but soils can and do get saturated with "salts", over time that will not be washed washed out of the soil.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Move to Sand From DE?

    In the past I had bad experience with sand, but after finding Ben's and then this place, I came to realize it was the filter's fault but bad advice from the pool store. Unfortunately I had already moved on to DE and although the easy maintenance with sand was attractive I figured I'd always use DE just because my water is crystal clear. My dad put a pool in last year, and went with sand. I have also handled the chemicals in it since day one. I have to admit, if you stay ahead of your pool, to my eyes the water clarity he get's is close enough to mine that (god forbid) the day comes I need a new filter, sand is back in the mix.

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