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Thread: Paxination's Pool - Updated

  1. Back To Top    #1
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    Paxination's Pool - Updated

    Hey I am new to the site and new to maintaining my own pool. I know it has changed a lot since I was a kid. At any rate here are my test results (except for CH, dont have test for that)

    pH - 7.0
    TA - 100
    FC - 5
    TC - 0 ( I think)
    CYA - 70
    CH - dont have test for it

    I know I need to raise my pH but from what I read my pH is at the right level to lower my TA, I just dont know what to add or do to reduce my TA. After I do that then I will work on pH

    I am just recovering from some brown algae as well. I shocked the pool (how long should I keep it at shock levels?) Been scrubbing the pool some each day if not twice. And it wasnt even a bad outbreak either. My mistake was my salt level in the pool. Some how I figured that my pool would hold about 1500 gallons of water and its 2100. So not even salt to produce chlorine.

    And last but not least in the pool school section, under water balance for SWG pools. It states to run your pump a minimum of 8 hours a day. Filter pump or SWG generator?

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: How to lower TA

    Welcome to TFP!

    You can raise your pH with no change in TA by aerating the water at this point in time. Basically, you are already past the first step in Lowering Your Alkalinity and can start with step 2 which is aeration. When your pH rises, then you add more acid to lower both pH and TA.

    When you are Defeating Algae you stop shocking when the water is crystal clear and you have 0.5 ppm or less of Combined Chlorine (CC) and you have 1 ppm FC or less chlorine loss overnight. You should probably focus more on getting rid of the algae and getting to minimal overnight chlorine loss unless you feel comfortable doing this and lowering the TA at the same time.

    The pump minimum is for the pump, not the SWG. The SWG on-time will depend on the size of the SWG system and the daily chlorine usage. Also, the 8 hours a day isn't an absolute rule and partly depends on your flow rate. Usually at least one turnover of water is needed (one turnover is the time it takes to pump one pool volume of water) though even that somewhat depends on your specific situation.

    Don't forget to use The Pool Calculator to calculate dosages, especially since your pool volume is fairly small so it won't take very much to make chemical adjustments.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: How to lower TA

    The Intex pools are all vinyl, so you don't really have to worry about CH, unless you live in an area with especially hard water.

    Regarding FC (free chlorine) and TC (total chlorine): TC = FC + CC (combined chlorine) so TC can't be smaller than FC. Out of curiosity, what test kit do you have?

    chem geek already gave you the lowdown on shocking, and pH/TA. Let us know how it goes!
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  4. Back To Top    #4
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Just wondering when is the best time to run my SWG? Me and my wife both work mornings and I would prefer to run it at night since your not suppose to be using the pool while its running. This way I can use my pool when I get home after work. Is this fine or is there a more preferable time? I have it set to start at 8pm and its suggested running time for my manufacturer is 3 hours. I have made sure an hour after it has started that it is running fine. And check it again in the morning to make sure there is no errors with it. And with me running it at night would doing a overnight chlorine loss test be pointless or what?

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: How to lower TA

    We swim in our pool while the pump and the SWG is running all the time. The timer is set to run from about 8am to 4-5pm during the summer and I often manually set it to run longer depending on the usage.
    Gary
    21k gal SW, IG Gunite PebbleSheen, 1HP Jandy, Jandy 340 filter, Polaris 280, 17' fiberglass slide w/ 2HP pump.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Aeration is what you want. There's been a bunch of threads on it recently, use the search box in the lower left corner of the screen and you'll find a bunch.

    Vigorous churning with lots of bubbles is what you want. I have the luxury of a spa; if I set the return to 100% spa, it looks like it's boiling. And it can lose 30ppm TA in 5 hours.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: How to lower TA

    Quote Originally Posted by crabboy
    We swim in our pool while the pump and the SWG is running all the time. The timer is set to run from about 8am to 4-5pm during the summer and I often manually set it to run longer depending on the usage.
    An Intex SWCG isnt the same. It's not designed the same in terms of grounding and bonding. So..you really aren't supposed to run it while you are in the water.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: How to lower TA

    Ahh, I missed that bit of info in the sig.
    Gary
    21k gal SW, IG Gunite PebbleSheen, 1HP Jandy, Jandy 340 filter, Polaris 280, 17' fiberglass slide w/ 2HP pump.

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    AV8TOR's Avatar
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Until we moved I kept large salt water aquariums and to keep them successfully you need a powerful protein skimmer. There are many designs that work well but they all rely on producing a lot of bubbles. I have had high speed jet type skimmers and venturi style. There is an inexpensive and very effective injector called a Mazzei Injector see here. I am wondering if this might be effective in reducing TA. I am sure with some rigging you could attach this to your wall outlets and run a flexible air hose for the air injection or simply power this with a external pump blasting the pool with tiny bubbles. Think this might work?
    16,000 gal IG Double Roman Plaster Pool (16yrs - plaster redone 2014)
    Pentair FNS-48 DE filter with WhisperFlo 2HP single speed pump
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    BBB all the way and tested with a TF100 kit
    Pool Calc user

  10. Back To Top    #10
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    Re: How to lower TA

    My test kit is a pentair pool and spa test kit (product number R151248 on their website). Got it from my local pool store. My kit only measures up to 3ppm for chlorine. I was guessing at 5 for FC as the color in the tube was darker than the color panel to the side. My TC was wrong as I thought that was the number I got after performing the second test. The color in my tube didnt darken at all when I did my second test which means that I had ALL my FC and no CC's. I had my SWG set to run for 8 hours the other night to boost the chlorine. And today when I got home I superchlorinated my pool according t0 the pool calculator with 100 oz of bleach. And I scrub my pool at least 3 times a day. Not scrubbing as hard as possible but enough to scratch the algae up. Gonna buy a deck brush to do this with as the one that came with my pool is ****.

  11. Back To Top    #11
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Dang...should have reloaded my window before posting. Yeah I got the aeration thing. I have 2 extra hoses from the new pump that I had to buy to work with my SWG. So I am gonna buy an adapter at my pool store to connect a hose on the inside of the pool. I am gonna seal up the other end of the hose and drill a bunch of holes into the sealed end of the hose and some how have it sit above the pool water. So the pump will shoot out water above the pool. Sorta like a fountain or a sprinkler. I also could rig the second hose onto an air pump as well. And just leave the hose in the water to bubble up. But right now I am gonna concentrate on the algae.

    No one seemed to answer my questions about WHEN to run my SWG? I guess after I get my pool situated I could set it to run 7am in the morning as NO one will be using it then, and I would have time to do the chlorine overnight loss test.

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: How to lower TA

    Running the SWG at 7am sounds like it would work. With the Intex SWG, it's just on or off, right? Higher-end SWGs let you set a percentage, so you can set it to run 20% or 60% or whatever you need to maintain your FC. If the Intex doesn't have that feature, it's a matter of running it so many hours per day to maintain the level.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  13. Back To Top    #13
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Its basically like that. I set it to how many hours I want it to run each day and it turns on and off automatically each day after that. My instructions for it suggest 3 hours for my pool, but I know I will have to adjust accordingly. Once its in full usage I know I will probably have to run it longer.

    I do need to get my TA down tho. I just realized that I do plan on adding borates to my pool's water and assuming my borates (havent got my test strips yet, on their way) are at 0, at 40ppm for borates for my pool (30-50 suggested) will raise my TA another 92ppm. So I need to look at my pool having a TA of 192ppm instead of the original 100 that I tested it for.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Your calculation on the borates addition doesn't sound correct. First - you should lower your TA before adding borates. But in any event the acid to keep the ph in check while adding the borax will also keep the TA in check too.

    If you are looking at the "effects of adding" chems section to determine that number- that section doesn't take into account that you are adding acid as well as borax. Hope that makes sense.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: How to lower TA

    When you're looking to add borates, you add both borax and acid, to keep the pH steady. The acid you add will also lower TA by roughly the same amount as the borax raises TA. For practical purposes you should figure that borates will be TA-neutral. So, lower TA to your target first, before doing borates.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  16. Back To Top    #16
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    Re: How to lower TA

    Thanks Paulr! Honesty it didn't occur to me that I had to add both according to the calculator! I didn't notice that it included other chems to help balance it out in the process! Really friggen genius! Well I took a sample of my water to my local pool store (5 min drive) and they said my alkalinity is 70 and I haven't done any thing yet! I may have been off on my test! On my test you add 2 chems! First one turns blue, then you add second 1 drop at time and count until color turns clear or light yellow! At any rate they said I should increase my alkalinity a hair! The suggested value on the pool calc is 60-80! What do you guys think? Its easier to raise alkalinity than to lower it! So I think 70 is fine!

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: How to lower TA

    I suggest you just monitor your pH. If it keeps climbing and you have to keep adding acid to control it, then if you want you can try lowering TA, which should help. If you don't have a persistent pH problem, then TA is fine, whatever it is.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: How to lower TA

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxination
    On my test you add 2 chems! First one turns blue, then you add second 1 drop at time and count until color turns clear or light yellow!
    As Paul said, your TA is fine. As for testing, if you are using a Taylor K-2006 or TF-100 test kit (or equivalent) then the TA test normally starts out green and turns red after so many drops. When the Free Chlorine (FC) level is very high, then the TA test can start out blue and then turns yellow after so many drops. To prevent this latter effect, add more thiosulfate, R-0007 (normally you add 2 drops of thiosulfate, but you can add more if the chlorine level is higher). The test is still valid when you see the transition from blue to yellow.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  19. Back To Top    #19
    NWMNMom's Avatar
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    Re: How to lower TA

    with regard to your SWG, we had an Intex SWG for years with our pool (not an Intex pool) and it was set to run at the same time as our pump, which had to be on during daylight hours for the solar panels. I don't know if there is something new or different with yours but you will also note that Intex recommends that you don't run your pump while someone is in the pool either. This would mean that people could not run pumps/solar panels during the day or could not swim during the day. There are many people who operate them in the same manner as we have. The SWG will not injure you, unless there is something different with a newer model you have? You could certainly be sure that your pump and SWG are grounded and bonded with the pool and of course you should already be sure to have a GFI setup for it.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: How to lower TA

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Quote Originally Posted by Paxination
    On my test you add 2 chems! First one turns blue, then you add second 1 drop at time and count until color turns clear or light yellow!
    As Paul said, your TA is fine. As for testing, if you are using a Taylor K-2006 or TF-100 test kit (or equivalent) then the TA test normally starts out green and turns red after so many drops.
    No, I recognize that test description from my first (pre-TF100) kit, it's a low-end TC/pH/TA kit. Not Taylor.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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