Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Not your average cya question

  1. Back To Top    #1

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Not your average cya question

    So I live in South Florida. To us it was cold this winter and we did not swim for several months
    During that time I floated chlorine tabs open full in the dispenser and added powdered chlorine about 1 lb per wk of Sodium Dichloro Tri dihydrate.

    Tried using a Ca based cholorine (leslies brand free and clear) last year but ended up having problems with ca levels.
    This is a 15.500 gallon kidney shaped pool

    Standard story. small amounts of alge were seen with high cholorine levels +5 on my cheapie reader. (actually 8 to 10 was the reading from store tests)

    Added more powder cholrine to fight the growth.

    Took a sample of the water to be tested and yes the cya was +150. said they did not have a test that went higher.

    I drained 2/3 of the pool waited 48 hours and retested. It remains at 150.

    I have now drained the pool again 2/3 and am now refilling. I dont want to do a total drain as in Florida I dont want to ground water to push the pool in any more than it has to be.

    The question is this

    I am going to stop using powdered, and switch to liquid. I dont want to use the tabs any longer
    Once filled I am sure the cya is probably still going to be around 80 to 100.

    Using only liquid chemicals and calculating the rain do you think I can get my cya level down to a good level without another refill???? Between 30 to 50??

    I have read that cya can only be removed by drain and fill.

    Water is expensive in FL so far I have probably hit a bill of 300 for this month.

    Do you reccomend using only liquid chemical for the pool?

    Thanks everyone. I have been reading up on this since registration but cannot find the best answer.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    156

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Welcome to the forum!

    There will be some other knowledgeable folks chiming in shortly, but as you read the posts here you will see that this forum advocates testing your own water and then only adding what is needed to keep the water clean and sanitary. Liquid chlorine is the preferred sanitizer as it adds only small amounts of salt as it is used up.

    The recommended test kits are one of the TFT test kits or the Taylor K-2006 which are available at the following link:
    http://tftestkits.net/Test-Kits-c4/

    Click on the Pool School link at the top of each page to see a comparison of the kits and to learn more about caring for your pool.

    Good Luck!
    Gordon
    27K gal, IG vinyl, 1.5 HP pump, 24" sand filter, Goldline Aqua Plus SWG

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Flower Mound, TX
    Posts
    5,062

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Yes, it is best to use liquid over the other types of chlorine that you mentioned for the very reason that the liquids don't add extra things that can accumulate and cause problems later, these being mainly calcium and CYA.

    Bleach is great as long as it isn't the kind with fragrances or thickeners. Plain old Clorox or Wal-Mart brand bleach is fine. You can also find 10% and 12% sodium hypochlorite in jugs at pool supply stores.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

  4. Back To Top    #4

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Im converted

    I went out and got a kit that does (Taylor K - 2006)

    Free and total chlorine
    PH
    Acid/Base demand
    TA
    Calcium
    Cyanuric acid
    Total phosphates

    Hopes this helps. I agree. Its better to trust myself than to hope someone is telling me right

    Once filled I am hoping that my cya will be at 85 or lower. I know it rains alot here and I am sure we will have splash out. Hope this will reduce the level lower within the next 4 to 5 months.

    I tested our tapwater here that I am using to fill the pool
    FAC 1
    TAC 1
    PH 8.0
    TA 90
    CYA 0
    Phosphates 400
    Didnt have a way to check tds

    I added 2 cup PhosPhree to the water during this fill (only because it is what I know at this time)
    to reduce the phosphates.

    Since I have never used liquid chlorine or bleach in that form, can someone please direct me to where I can find a good starting point. I will keep looking.

    I know first is to get alkalinity and ph under control. Then adjust Chlorine. I have the basics and understand the chemistry, just need to learn how to adjust using the new chemicals and how much to use.

    What type of Baking Soda should I use. I have not seen it sold in bulk. Muretic acid is ok. I have plenty. How much Chlorine Bleach?

    Thanks this place is da bomb for a pool owner.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Not your average cya question

    To figure out quantities you can use the Pool Calculator, see the link in my signature. If you know your current level and what you want the level to be, it will tell you exactly how much to use to get there.

    Ordinary kitchen baking soda. Most larger grocery stores will have it in 4 lb boxes and places like Costco often have 12 lb bags. Even in the smaller quantities it is almost always much less expensive than the pool store equivalent. I doubt that you will need much baking soda, your starting TA is very reasonable and should be just about perfect once you get the PH down.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Ok now I am baffaled

    Started with an off the chart cya. 150+ probably around 200 - 300ish best guess.
    Drained 1/2 of the water from 15500 gallons
    Refilled with city water. City water tested at 0 cya

    Retested after 48 hours. cya still 150+ (Best guess was 180ish by dilute)

    Today drained 2/3 of the water. In the process of filling now. Almost 4/5 full.
    Circulation pump running during fill. Pulling from the bottom drain

    Tested cya and I am still showing level above 100 on the kit. Dilutes out to around 150 +/-

    Current tests
    ph 7.8
    FC 3
    TC 2
    TA 120
    CC 0

    There are no pucks in the water. I have added no chlorine. Not sure why the level isnt testing lower?

    I have solar panels. I had them open during the drain and fill each time so they have exchanged their water.
    I have a Clean filter. Sprayed and cleaned before and after the first drain and fill and before this drain and fill
    It is clean. PSI runs normal for the system 15 to 20 psi. Which is normal for this pool.
    I brushed the entire pool before the first drain and fill and then again before this drain and fill as well

    They system has been circulating and mixing. Am I checking too early?
    I cannot understand why the cya isnt coming down.

    Anyone with ideas?????

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,344

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Probably seeing a reading which is as high as your kit can measure. In other words, you're hitting the limit of your tester.
    If the max reading on the test scale is 150, your water could be 700 and still read 150. Drain half, it's 350, still reading 150. Another third, and it's 233, still reading 150. Of course, it could have been 500, or 800, or 12000... no way to know until you get it within a range you can measure.
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

  8. Back To Top    #8
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Not your average cya question

    You should run the pump for an hour after the pool is refilled, to mix the pool water throughly, before testing.

    Your CYA is coming down. I suspect that it just started really really really high. The CYA tests will all read extremely high CYA levels are something much lower, typically around 100.

    Also, make sure you are doing the CYA test in indirect sunlight. Using indoor light can result in incorrect high readings.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohm_Boy
    Probably seeing a reading which is as high as your kit can measure. In other words, you're hitting the limit of your tester.
    If the max reading on the test scale is 150, your water could be 700 and still read 150. Drain half, it's 350, still reading 150. Another third, and it's 233, still reading 150. Of course, it could have been 500, or 800, or 12000... no way to know until you get it within a range you can measure.
    Its a tough one for me.
    Opinions wanted.
    Should I go ahead and drain and fill again. Its going to cost a bundle for sure in water this month.
    If I still test out at 150+ after the fill and run

    The water looks great. Always has. Only small areas of alge noted during this time.
    Easy to brush off.

    Ive been best guessing at level but I am sure there is no way to know what I started at. I cant do a complete drain as I dont want to walls to crack do to pressures from the outside without water to act as a counter balance. Im kinda uncomfortable going donw to 2/3.

    I am leaning on draining 1/2 again if it is

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Hi Stuart,

    I am South of hammocks behind Metro Zoo in Miami. What part of So FL are you from?

    All pools are different so with that said, these are some things I have learned form my pool

    1. I have lost CYA every year in my pool, I try to keep it at 50 but every 4-5 months I actually add CYA.
    2. I currently have 60pppm CYA now as I use a lot of CL and trying to see how this works for me. I use BBB and have 50ppm Borates.
    3. My TA is always lowering. It is at 60ppm and when it drops to 50 I add Baking Soda (from BJ's Wholesale around $6 for 12 lbs) to aroud 70-80. I have water features but do not use them that often. I think when it rains the areation can be the cause. It rains a lot.
    4. I add 2 inches of water 2 or 3 teams during the year. The rain keeps my pool at the correct level and some times have to drain (could be why I lose CYA but I drain 1 or 2 inches 2xs a year so it is not that much).
    5. I too have Solar and my temps hang around 86-92 during May- Sept. I think the heat has to do with a lot of chemical usage.

    So your statement of having a goal of 85 CYA though still high is reasonable, it should come down slowly. As far as Chlorine, I buy mine at Leslie's they always have buy 2 get 1 free and the punch card. I think it is 10% bleach.

    Hope you can take my experience and apply them to your situation.

    Juan
    20x40 24,000 gal IG plaster/CircuPool RJ45 SWG/2 skimmer/2sp 2.5hp Jandy Stealth/340sq ft cart filter/600sqftHeliocol Solar Panels/6ft semi circlr tanning ledge/25ft deep end bench/5ft sheer descent/2 lion head water features/1300sqft travertine paver/2 Colorlogic lights/Hayward Navigator/3step 2ft raised bond beam

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Guest

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Any R/O guys in your neck of the woods? Might be worth a call.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Im about 25 miles north of WPB up here in Stuart about 90 miles from Miami In Fl were almost next door.

    I have not seen an R/O service around here for pools. I have seen services for pool water delivery, but its costly.

    On the plus side, it only takes about 3 hours to drain the pool to 2/3 but its about 8 hours to fill.

    I have tested again now that it is almost refilled, I am now at a solid 100.

    Doing the math if I am at 100 now then I was at 300 when I started. prior to that I must have been somewhere between 600 to 800 when I first noticed it.

    Im going to continue to let it circulate through the night and then recheck in the early am. If it remains at 100 or higher I am going to drain 1/2. That would seem the prudent thing to do since I have gone this far.
    Thinking about it Im probably going to drain half anyway.

    So far reading this forum, I have learned much more about pools than I am sure the poolman wants me to know lol.

    Juan
    Thanks for the input. I am going to change to the BBB system as well. Last year it was high Ca++ from the powder, now high cya from the tabs, its a system designed to have problems and sell more product and services.
    I actually thought I knew a little something about pools until I found this board.
    I have alot to learn.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    In the Industry
    Pacifica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    47

    Re: Not your average cya question

    being in florida, you'll have to use a lot of chlorine since the sun shines there a lot and if you're using granular (powder) then you are adding a large amount of cyanuric acid every time you add a scoop of the chlorine. Use chlorine tablets in conjunction with liquid chlorine and you will not only be able to control your cyanuric acid but you'll most likely cut down on your cost of sanitizer as well. Keeping you cyanuric acid in range will allow your chlorine to hold in the water and kill off your algae come swimming season.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Hi Juan - welcome to TFP! You've done great so far, I just wanted to give you some encouragement and tell you that you are headed down the road to a Trouble-Free pool!

    Just a side note - ignore phosphates. They are algae food, but once you are able to achieve the proper FC/CYA ratio - they become irrelevant, so you won't need to worry about adding phosphate remover.

    Now that your CYA is down to 100, you could go about 1/3 more and get it to say 70-80 and it will slowly drop from there. My first season with BBB I was able to get my CYA down to 70 after 3 partial drains/refills. I was able to manage fine with 70 for that summer, and with you being in Florida and the hot sun and all you should be great at that level for a while. Once you get rain in the fall you'll probably end up draining a little out so I see this level dropping further over time. You'll probably end up adding some next year or the year after, LOL

    Good job
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  15. Back To Top    #15

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Thanks everyone.
    Checked this morning after circulating all night. I am at a solid 90.
    Im drainning off another 1/3 then I should be good to start adjusting. Hopefully 60 to 70? Still high but not like it was for sure.
    Now Im going to be in the balance phase soon.

    How long after this latest fill do you think I should wait before trying to adjust the ph and ta?
    I know ph will be high because our tap water is high. at 8.0. TA is also a bit high at 120 last check before this drain/fill. Will probably be higher when done.
    So with a

    PH of 7.8 to 8
    TA of 120 to 140

    Should I just try and adjust the ph first and the TA will follow?

    Jasons Pool Calculator is great but Do I need to make adjustments for the cya level at this time?

    Also the calculator seems to take into consideration Borate levels. I do not have a test method for this (borate). How will this affect the amounts needed?

    Once PH is adjusted and I know my correct TC and FC levels Should I then try for pool shock with chlorine? Im trying to figure my suggested FC level for a shock in a 15,500 gallon pool.

    I started with a Calcium level at 300 yesterday. Tap water CH is 80 here.
    If I am low should I bring up the calcium first to 200 before shocking or does it matter. I hate to add Calcium as I already know it usually runs on the high side but I have a concrete pool.

    Thanks everyone. I know there is alot of questions here. Im still a novice but I am reading.
    This last drain/fill should be done in 5 hours or so and I am really looking forward to starting on something else

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cupertino, CA
    Posts
    1,966

    Re: Not your average cya question

    If you have not added boxfuls of borax, you don't have any borates, so don't worry about that.

    When the fill is done, let it circulate for a half hour or so and then you can run a full set of tests. Fix pH first, then add some chlorine, no real need to shock unless you see green or have CC over 0.5. Then if you want to work off some excess TA, you can start that process. (Don't try to shock and fix pH or reduce TA at the same time, because high FC can interfere with the pH test.)

    Leave CH for last, it's the least important. It has no effect on shocking or pH or anything else, but you would regret cranking it up too high after all that nice draining.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  17. Back To Top    #17

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    61

    Re: Not your average cya question

    Final results
    After 3 drain and fill my cya is now 60 to 70

    I am going to finish circulating the water for another 45 min to hour than check the levels again.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •