New Pool Owner, Cloudy Water

[Noggin]

Got my test kit and tested the water (forgot to do pH) but the water wasn't circulating so I don't trust the accuracy to be great. Going to do it again in the morning after letting the pumps run overnight.

On the CH test, when the water turns blue is it like BAM ITS BLUE!!! or is it like a very delicate almost perfectly clear blue? I saw a very slight tinge of blue at something like 30 drops, and it went less blue as I continued adding. I added 220 drops... i sure hope my calcium isn't above 2200

My inaccurate test results:
FC 6
CC 0
TA turned pink at 120 then cleared up shortly after, stayed pink at 130
CYA 50

I doubt the inaccuracy due to not cycling the water is massive, so it's looking good for my CYA.

Edit: It was the CH test that I messed up and used too many drops, not TA like I initially wrote. I've corrected my mistake.

 

[TimS]

I asked a very similar question some time back. The response I got was count drops until the color stops changing. Once the color stops changing, subtract one and you're done. For example:

drop 8 - slight change
drop 9 - slight change
drop 10 - slight change
drop 11 - no change

11-1=10.

 

[TimS]

Ooops! I mis-read your question. In your case, it sounds like you way overshot. My guess is you missed the point where it stopped changing. I have no idea what happens when you overshoot the target by a large amount, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the color start changing again.

 

[Bama Rambler]

It all depends on your water. On mine it's like; one drop no change, then the next it's blue. But like Tim, I've read where people had a slight change for a few drops then no change.

The single biggest thing that helped with the endpoint of all my tests was the magnetic stirrer that I bought.

 

[JasonLion]

It can sometimes go blue all at once and sometimes take a couple of drops, but it should never take more than four or five drops to finish changing. If you then continue adding drops beyond that point it can start changing again. First you wait for it to start changing, then as soon as there is a drop where it doesn't change any further you are done (and you don't count the final drop that didn't cause any further change).

 

[Noggin]

The problem was that it was a very subtle change and I didn't even notice it happen. If I looked at the cylinder from the side, it looked clear. If I looked at it from the top and through the side it looked very slightly blue but only at some angles.

Edit: Just tested the water again and I think I understand the CH test. I still find it hard to do though as every drop seems to be a subtle change in color... from red, to purple, to blue. The hard part being when does it stop changing from purple to blue and just stay blue. I just have to take a guess, hopefully a good one, at when to stop

Latest numbers
FC 4.5
CC 0.5
TC 4.5
TA 110
CH 460
pH 7.2
CYA 60

I vacuumed my pool last night after letting the phlegm settle to the bottom, used about 3" of water in the process. I think I was out there for at least an hour and I could see the vacuum lines on the bottom so I thought I did a good job. I guess it is just easy to miss some spots. I started the pumps again and it is cloudy again, though not as bad as it has been all week. I am still going to try to replace the sand today but it is currently raining. Maybe I'll get a few hours later on today without rain so I can do it. It looks like by CYA is low enough that I don't need to drain. CH is higher than I think it needs to be but I'm not having any scale problems. Wish I hadn't added that 10 lbs of hardener now I think I'll let backwashing handle it if that is ok. I don't trust my own test numbers on that test though. I find that one to be the hardest of them all... CYA is easy

So my revised goal list is replace sand and shock and hope new sand clears up the water and find some way to pump air through the water. The pool calc says, "To lower TA you reduce pH to 7.0-7.2 with acid and then aerate to increase pH." It is the addition of acid that lowers TA, not the air right? The air is just to increase the pH without throwing off the TA? (nevermind, found the answer in the pool school! ) Would the fountain here do a good job? Seems kind of crappy but I have one of them already. Or I could build one out of PVC like Poseidon, http://pages.sbcglobal.net/j.lentz/aerator2.JPG

Are there any tricks to opening the sand filter? It looks like there are just bolts on top, remove em and the valve should come right off. After that, it seems like I should just be careful of the guts and just start vacuuming and dumping the sand under my deck.

 

[TimS]

Are there any tricks to opening the sand filter? It looks like there are just bolts on top, remove em and the valve should come right off. After that, it seems like I should just be careful of the guts and just start vacuuming and dumping the sand under my deck.

I'm not sure which filter you have, but on mine, you don't want to remove the bolts on top. That actually disassembles the valve. Instead there is a collar between the valve and the body of the filter. There is one bolt on each side of that collar. Remove those two bolts, and the collar splits into two pieces. Pull those off and the valve slides up off the body. I don't know if this applies to your filter, but you might want to check before you start taking things apart :-D

Also, yes, it is the acid that lowers TA (and pH.) If I understand it correctly, the aeration increases pH without changing TA by causing an increase in carbon dioxide. (I could have misunderstood that one )

 

[polyvue]

Edit: Just tested the water again and I think I understand the CH test. I still find it hard to do though as every drop seems to be a subtle change in color... from red, to purple, to blue. The hard part being when does it stop changing from purple to blue and just stay blue. I just have to take a guess, hopefully a good one, at when to stop

Latest numbers
FC 4.5
CC 0.5
TC 4.5
TA 110
CH 460
pH 7.2
CYA 60

It looks like by CYA is low enough that I don't need to drain. CH is higher than I think it needs to be but I'm not having any scale problems.

Would the fountain here do a good job? Seems kind of crappy but I have one of them already. Or I could build one out of PVC like Poseidon, http://pages.sbcglobal.net/j.lentz/aerator2.JPG

That aerator would work nicely. Your test results don't look so out of whack that you have to make your adjustments all in one day. In fact, if you react too quickly you could end up overadjusting... which may require additional treatment, etc., burning up chemicals and time. The best plan is to do one thing one day, then leave it be for a few days. I second your notion to bring down CYA/Calcium Hardness over time through backwashing or vacuuming to waste.

That CH test is a tricky one; if you look away for second... you can miss the change.

 

[Noggin]

When you say "that aerator" did you mean the polaris fountain or the PVC one? The polaris fountain seems like it would be slow to do much of anything. Well I'm about to go to Home Depot to get a plumbers plug to help with refilling the sand I'll go ahead and pick up some PVC to make a turbo aerator.

I broke a nub on one of the laterals, but I don't think it is really a problem. The nub is supposed to go in between two other nubs on the manifold to lock it in place, but it doesn't seem like the nubs on the other laterals catch onto them anyway. Picture attached I may try to think of a way to hold it without it being permanent

 

[Noggin]

Sand changed and about a gallon of bleach added to pool. I guess it doesn't matter if I'm exact or not with the chemicals. If I need to add a gallon, I can add most of a 1.4 gallon jug and it should get me in the acceptable range. I guess it'll get more important to be exact as my CYA drops over time. I'll build my aerator tonight and run it tomorrow if chlorine looks OK.

 

[Bama Rambler]

The nubs on the laterals are just an alignment device. It won't hurt anything if you broke one of them off as long as you didn't crack the lateral itself.

CLose counts on most of the chems as long as you don't go to far one way or the other. In 15,000 gallons a couple of ounces one way or the other isn't a big difference.

 

[Noggin]

Three more questions...

1. My filter is going up about 2 PSI per hour. Is that simply because the sand may be filtering just that much better and there is a lot of Crud in my water or is there something else?
2. I've gathered all the parts for my aerator but I'm not sure how large of holes I should drill. I'm thinking something like 6 holes (3 on each end) about as large as the outlet on my Polaris' tail
3. Will this put too much stress on the fitting in the pool wall? Blue line is the approximate water line. It seems like a rather large water reservoir above the water. Maybe I should have used a smaller top pipe, but I think it will be easier to aim with the larger pipe. Actually, I guess the side pieces don't need to be that long. I could cut them in half and that would drastically cut down on the weight of the thing.

Edit: Actually, it looks like Poseidon used rather large holes, http://pages.sbcglobal.net/j.lentz/aerator1.JPG

 

[Bama Rambler]

1) Your filter might indeed be filtering "that" much better than your the old. New sand filters really well. You should see the rise slow down soon.

2) I drilled (9) 1/4" holes in my aerator. This works out to about the area of a 3/4" eyeball. Those look like 3/8" holes in Poseiden's aerator.

3) I don't think it'd put too much stress on the wall fitting. If you are concerned about it you could cut a piece of pool noodle to fit tightly between the tee and the pool wall.

 

[Noggin]

Actually my concern was that I'd need to keep something under it to keep it afloat. Wish I had checked this thread 10 minutes ago though, i just drilled 4 1/2" holes. I understand the logic behind the numbers. I should still get fairly good aeration though so I'm not bummed about it. After it dries I'll install it and get a picture of it running. And if it sucks, I'll plug the holes and drill new ones

Anyway, the pool is finally CLEAR!!!

My dog (Noggin), chases the creepy around the pool for hours at a time. He actually caught it once and pulled it out when the tail flicked out of the water. Hope he doesn't do it again I took like 6 pictures, and in all 6 the creepy is in a different place and so is Noggin

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Well that looks much better now doesn't it!
Congrats...

 

[geekgranny]

Actually my concern was that I'd need to keep something under it to keep it afloat. Wish I had checked this thread 10 minutes ago though, i just drilled 4 1/2" holes. I understand the logic behind the numbers. I should still get fairly good aeration though so I'm not bummed about it. After it dries I'll install it and get a picture of it running. And if it sucks, I'll plug the holes and drill new ones

Anyway, the pool is finally CLEAR!!!

My dog (Noggin), chases the creepy around the pool for hours at a time. He actually caught it once and pulled it out when the tail flicked out of the water. Hope he doesn't do it again I took like 6 pictures, and in all 6 the creepy is in a different place and so is Noggin

Pool looks great. I've had to replace several cleaners over the years when my dogs "rescued and then killed" the cleaners. It seems that no matter how well they are trained certain dogs just can't resist the tail. :grrrr:

Noggin is a cutie. Is he a terrier? He may never be able to resist the tail. Please be sure he knows how to get out of the pool if he falls in.

gg=alice

 

[Noggin]

Yeah, he's a Jack Russell. We're already training him to be used to the pool. We'll put him on the first step and give him treats if he stays calm. We also bought him a life jacket and we're going to use that to place him in the pool and call him to the steps where we'll give him treats. Then we'll eventually move the treats away from the steps and see if he'll go to the steps still in order to get to the treats But right now he's only allowed to be in the back yard when we're home and we can see the pool from the couch.

 

[geekgranny]

Yeah, he's a Jack Russell. We're already training him to be used to the pool. We'll put him on the first step and give him treats if he stays calm. We also bought him a life jacket and we're going to use that to place him in the pool and call him to the steps where we'll give him treats. Then we'll eventually move the treats away from the steps and see if he'll go to the steps still in order to get to the treats But right now he's only allowed to be in the back yard when we're home and we can see the pool from the couch.

Very good boy. :-D Jack Russells can be brilliant. I'm sure you've noticed. Once he learns and becomes relaxed he'll probably never forget. I like your idea to get him comfortable. I had to cuddle one of my Labradoodles much longer, in the shallow end, for him to relax. It took several days longer for him than his litter-mate brother and Jake Mastiff puppy.

gg=alice

 

[Noggin]

Aerator question... should I test pH every hour this thing is running or more like every day? Just don't know how fast to expect this thing to go.

Edit: I'm now fairly glad I didn't drill smaller holes. I noticed that my booster pump makes more noise now than it did before and if I plug one of the holes with my finger I get popping sounds at the aerator, which I think may be air inside the unit. Is my booster pump cavitating and does putting more backpressure on it by covering the holes make it worse?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I would test the ph every few hours. If you see small rise, then you can go longer. IF the rise is quicker then check it more frequently, etc. trial and error.