Confused and stressed - pls help - new pool/spa and autocover

[camedia]

Hi, I have a rectangular gunnite pool w a spa inside and am super confused on the best way to deal with it over the winter. Also the spa is covered in glass tile on the outside and half way down the inside.

When they lowered the water in the spa to below the tile, there was a huge sag in the spa to where it pulled forward the autocover when it rained and leaves got it.

I’m worried about popping the tile because now there is water against the two outside spa walls and I also raised the water in the spa so it doesn’t sag so much. Also I put foam mats on the wall so the pressure isn’t against the edges.

I live in northern NJ and today someone gave me the idea of putting a cover pump inside the spa to ensure that it doesn’t freeze.

Before that I was considering just keeping the pumps going all winter - but I have a 2hp jandy, therefore considering switching to a variable speed model. Read that its basically the same cost to just keep the pump running vs the cost of closing and opening every year. Keeping the pump running also has the benefit that I can raise the water level in the pool (currently one inch below the tile) which would give me more confidence in the autocover withstanding the winter.

Just seems like a bunch of trade offs and the only safe option is to keep the pool open year round?
1)put cover pump in spa and live with risk of it stopping to work or the cover tearing
2)raise water in pool but then seems there is a risk of the water tile popping
3)could invest in getting a variable pump, changing plumbing so i can get flow in both spa and pool at the same time, and changing heater so it works well at under 50 degrees - just seems a very expensive and complex solution? Oh and I’d also have to get a generator (but sort of want that anyway)
4)thought about a safety cover but only have decking on two sides and so mesh seems only option and frankly would like to figure out a way to use the autocover if possible for year 1

Anyone in the Northeast w a tile covered spa that keeps the water moving all winter?

Would really appreciate any advice - thank you!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Camedia, aside from the spa tile question, I can advise you that to use an autocover you do *not* want to lower pool water as the cover actually needs to rest on the water itself. That's why you often see wrinkles in the liner with extra fabric, so it can lay across the water but also its high enough not to pull so hard on it.

Perhaps your cover is being pulled so far that it is the source of the problem with the spa? I think I'd risk a few popped tiles rather than a broken autocover.

Some folks with autocovers in the Northeast use them only from Spring to Fall, and use other types of covers during the winter.

Do you have an owners manual that advises you on how to handle the cover in winter? I'm in Georgia and we don't close our pool, so I while I *do* have an autocover we don't have to deal with these dilemmas.

Maddie

 

[Catanzaro]

Hi, I have a rectangular gunnite pool w a spa inside and am super confused on the best way to deal with it over the winter. Also the spa is covered in glass tile on the outside and half way down the inside.

Can you please upload a picture of the pool and spa? You state the SPA is inside the pool? What if you used antifreeze in the spa only? Can you keep water from the spa from entering the pool? If so, then you can keep the level high to protect the cover and water will not freeze with the use of antifreeze. Pictures would be helpful (with and without the cover). Thanks!

 

[camedia]

Thanks much for the responses so far.

Pls see the picture - there is tile on both exterior walls of the spa and on the side is a sun shelf

On lowering the water, Coverstar says you need to lower the water to one inch below the tile line - assuming so they don’t take liability for any popped tiles. I can judge how common a problem this is but the recommendation seems very common.

Also I’m not familiar with the antifreeze idea. The pool company already closed it but am willing to try anything. The water in the spa doesn’t mix w the pool, the wall is many inches higher than the pool water level now. I was going to at least drop a small pump in there to keep the water moving.

I googled the antifreeze a bit and it said that its for pipes. Do people also use it straight into Spas? How much would i need for a 9X9 spa?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Let me just say that's a great looking pool

Maddie

 

[Catanzaro]

Camedia:

I really believe that you have to follow the manufacturers guidelines for the cover that you have. In my opinion, North Jersey is really towards the NY/PA region where the temperatures are a bit more extreme. The pool really does not freeze that solid where there is going to be enough pressure to pop the tiles. My pool has a solid tarp safety cover (which sits on the pool water) and fills up at least 18"-24" each year, and in the spring upon inspection, neither the cover nor the liner has any damage where water has frozen once the water is removed. The temperature has to be consistently under 32* and colder for days and evenings (at least 2-3 weeks) before the pool surface will freeze that deep and possibly cause problems. I would not lower the water so the cover has a sag as it can get damaged. I would rather take my chances with a tile here and there, which I am guessing will stay in tact through the winter. There is too much latent heat in the ground, especially with concrete walls, and if there is snow, then this acts as a barrier as well.

 

[PoolGate]

FYI: Keeping the pump on over winter will most likely mean the pump will be running at full speed since it will probably be in "freeze protect" mode the whole time. Freeze protect usually kicks it to the highest setting. Mine kicks in at 35 degrees and runs the VS pump at 3000rpms. This all means you will not see any savings from having a VSP.

 

[camedia]

Thanks. Coverstar, the autocover makes, says it can withstand New England winters but they don’t warranty it. They also say lower it to inch below the tile. Doing that definitely makes a sag but hopefully not too big a deal.

Another idea someone gave me is to just leave it open during the winter. I have a lot of trees so they said to just clean it again post thanksgiving to get the leaves out after winterization. I hadn’t thought of this but it’s a pretty low stress idea. Easy to see the water level and I could then reduce the water to below the tile in the spa also. Only two issues seem 1)stains from debris and 2)pool gets colder bc of no cover

do people do that w lots of trees?

- - - Updated - - -

Let me just say that's a great looking pool

Maddie

Thanks! It’s been a very painful build and definitely would do things differently but somehow all forgotten when I see the kids playing.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Another idea someone gave me is to just leave it open during the winter. I have a lot of trees so they said to just clean it again post thanksgiving to get the leaves out after winterization. I hadn’t thought of this but it’s a pretty low stress idea. Easy to see the water level and I could then reduce the water to below the tile in the spa also. Only two issues seem 1)stains from debris and 2)pool gets colder bc of no cover

do people do that w lots of trees?

Well, yeah...some do. Just not a lot in the Northeast from my experience here. Yet I don't know why you couldn't!

You'd have to be able to stand the cold to occasionally scoop out leaves and schmutz, and possible lower the water level if the rain/snow take it up too far. I would get a small-ish sump pump which could be dropped in there to lower water level. A sump pump is always handy to have with a pool, by the way. Useful for times that the pump is offline, or you want to stir up the pH a bit... that sort of thing.

You also would have an increased safety risk if the pool was uncovered in snow/ice and an animal or child/person fell in.

Maddie

 

[Catanzaro]

Auto covers are not winter covers for concrete pools. It is best to retract the cover and purchase a safety mesh cover, which in turn allows you to lower the water for the winter, etc. and protect all aspects of the pool. Thanks!

 

[camedia]

Auto covers are not winter covers for concrete pools. It is best to retract the cover and purchase a safety mesh cover, which in turn allows you to lower the water for the winter, etc. and protect all aspects of the pool. Thanks!

I appreciate your perspective but that’s not what CoverStar says. They say it can hold up to NE winters for concrete pools.

At this point, I’m going to try it for winter and see. Water is lowered below the tile line, but higher in the spa where I’ve put a small submersible pump that I turn on when the temp drops. So far so good w this last storm which was about 5 inches of pretty wet snow.

What I hadn’t expected was that a lot of the snow just melted on contact w the cover bc the water was warmer. The cover bc its solid also traps a bunch of heat. And bc snow is only ~20% water, there wasn’t too much work for the cover pump.

Let’s see what happens but so far I’m happy I took the chance.

 

[Catanzaro]

I appreciate your perspective but that’s not what CoverStar says. They say it can hold up to NE winters for concrete pools.

This was based on information provided by a friend in the business. Only time will tell. A solid mesh cover would allow you to lower water and maintain pressure off the tiles. Then again, I have only a liner and tarp. Good luck and please keep us posted. Just out of curiosity, does the manufacturer warranty the cover for such heavy snow loads, and how long is the warranty for? Do you have a picture with the auto cover on? Thank you.