Adding Antifreeze to return lines

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PoolInMN

Active member
Oct 6, 2018
26
Minneapolis
I had a company come out and close my pool last winter. I took notes while they were doing it so I could do it myself this year and ongoing. In my notes I see that they had somehow added antifreeze to the return lines and verified that antifreeze was coming out of the return lines before capping them off.

I've been watching videos on pool closings for the past few hours and I see tons of example where people put antifreeze into the skimmers once they are blown out so that part seems fairly straight forward. What I don't remember and for some reason can't seem to find much information about is how they would have gotten antifreeze into the return lines. I assume (and have read) that I shouldn't add it to the pool pump and blow it through all of the equipment.

Can anyone advise on how best to get anti freeze into the return lines? I've seen a few videos where people use a funnel to pour the antifreeze into the return line at the outlet itself but I'm pretty sure when the guys did it last year they added it at the pad somehow?


Thanks in advance!
 
PoolInMN said:
Thanks. That said I'd still like recommendations on how to get antifreeze into the return lines.
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Do you recall if the antifreeze was added after the returns were closed with winter plugs? If so, then it could have been done after the filter (if you have a disconnect - (union) or available port for adding liquid). Hard to tell. Can you upload some pictures of your equipment pad. Please take a front picture, 2 side pictures and a top picture.

Personally, I do not use or recommend antifreeze in Central to Southern NJ, but as the northern states become colder, sometimes a peace of mind is worth the use of the antifreeze, no matter what the cost is. A lot has to do with how deep of a freeze one has.
 
I'm attaching a few pictures of the equipment pad. I'm fairly certain they added the antifreeze after the returns had been capped with winter plugs. What I remember fairly clearly was that they popped off the winter plugs briefly to ensure that they could see the antifreeze coming through and then recapped them.

I don't think this is what they did but maybe I could just disconnect at the exit joint from the salt water generator and poor the antifreeze in the pipe that goes into the ground?

Or can I put the filter on recirculate and add the antifreeze to the pump, I'm not sure if it's safe to have the antifreeze run through the heater and salt water generator?

Peace of mind is worth quite a bit to me given that last winter we got down to temps of -20F here in Minneapolis.20181007_181915.jpg20181007_181827.jpg20181007_181839.jpg
 
I don't think this is what they did but maybe I could just disconnect at the exit joint from the salt water generator and poor the antifreeze in the pipe that goes into the ground?
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Good idea. Do not remove the winter plugs. Just add antifreeze with funnel and use a shop vac to blow some air in the line. Nothing major, just about 15-30 seconds will push the liquid down into the pipes that any water will be there with antifreeze. When you blow air in the lines, back off after a few seconds just in case air comes back. I doubt any liquid will come back up the piping. Assuming your piping is above the pool and not below grade. A few times of pushing air and then letting off the hose, then install the dummy pipe or salt cell back. Some members remove the cell and plug the piping not to allow critters inside.

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Is the MPV on Winterize or at least between 2 settings?
 
I haven't actually blown out any lines yet, I'm just trying to get my game plan ready. Once I do close it though I was planning to set the MPV to close, I don't think that mine has a winterize setting.

Thanks for the advice on getting antifreeze into the line and good call on removing the generator and capping off the ends for the winter.

The other thing that I'm paranoid about is making sure I have a sufficient air lock on the main drain. Assuming that I run air through it for a while using a compressor attached to my pump drain hole and then lock it by closing the main drain after it's run for a while, is there any way to get some additional piece of mind that it has enough air in it? Is there a good way to get antifreeze into the main drain line?
 
MPV is between 2 settings. Once your trap air in the main drain, the valve should hold. If you hear it hissing, then it has failed. You can quickly open the pump basket and place another plug in the suction line, but you will also have to isolate the skimmers, if they are attached. I have one shut off for the skimmers and one for the main drain. The skimmers can be operated together or separately. What I do after clearing the skimmers is to lift the handle up and point into towards the main drain. Now, I have a lock from the skimmer side plumbing to the main drain. Then when I trap air in the main drain, now I have 2 valves, in addition to the plug.

I have never worried about the main drain as it is so far below in the ground. I believe that if freezing where to occur and the air not holding, then the main drain in the pool will expand through the covers. Just my thoughts, but I could be off. No antifreeze can really be secured in the main drain, but others have added until it came out in the pool.

Have you read my thread? The concept of closing an in ground swimming pool?

The concept of closing an in ground swimming pool
 

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First of all thanks for all of the help, I've been using your writeup as a guide and spent the majority of my day today working on closing the pool :)

I have 2 outstanding questions that I don't think were answered directly in other posts that I've read.

1) I blew out the return lines and added antifreeze to them. I did uncover the each jet briefly to confirm that antifreeze was coming through and it was. However I have a booster pump that powers a Polaris cleaner and while a LOT of water did come out of it when I first started running my compressor, I was never able to get antifreeze to come out of it. Is there something special I need to do to winterize the booster pump line?

2) I got a LOT of water out of the skimmer using a combination of push from the compressor and pull from a shop vac. However even after working the skimmer lines from both ends for a while I do still see some amount of water when I look down in the skimmer line. Is this normal? If I'd used a Cyclone would it be completely empty?

Quite honestly at this point I'm trying to decide if what I did is good enough (especially if I dump a gallon of antifreeze in the skimmers) or if I should just buy a Cyclone.
 
You need the high volume air blowing from a shop vac to clear your lines. Compressor doesn’t have enough air volume. I get a 10ft geyser from my skimmer and there is no water left when I’m done.
 
1) I blew out the return lines and added antifreeze to them. I did uncover the each jet briefly to confirm that antifreeze was coming through and it was. However I have a booster pump that powers a Polaris cleaner and while a LOT of water did come out of it when I first started running my compressor, I was never able to get antifreeze to come out of it. Is there something special I need to do to winterize the booster pump line?
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There is a drain plug on the Booster Pump. Remove it and you are done. Water is moved out of the pump during the closing process, just like a heater, and other items that are after the filter and before the pool returns.

2) I got a LOT of water out of the skimmer using a combination of push from the compressor and pull from a shop vac. However even after working the skimmer lines from both ends for a while I do still see some amount of water when I look down in the skimmer line. Is this normal? If I'd used a Cyclone would it be completely empty?
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Nothing is completely empty unless the air and sun dried out the piping over time. How you can see down the pipes is beyond me (It is dark and scary LOL!). If you pour a gallon of antifreeze in each skimmer, you are done. I believe the antifreeze is designed with water in mind. No water, or very little water, the less the antifreeze.

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If this makes you feel any better about your closing:

A few years ago, I took a 3' schedule 40 - 3" PVC pipe. The bottom was capped off and glued properly. The top only had a cap. The first year, I filled up the piping with 90% water (measured very carefully inside and outside), capped off, marked with black sharpie where the cap was banged in with rubber mallet all the way down. Left outside to freeze all winter long. The cap did not move and nothing broke.

The following year, I filled up the tube with 100% water. Capped off again and it was a PIA to remove the banged in cap, but I did. Left out all winter long. Deep freeze and the cap expanded up by about 1". That is 1/36th of an inch, or 2.8% expansion. Water expands around 9% from what I read.

Now, please remember that I used schedule 40, which is extremely thick. Underground piping is probably less of a thickness, but not sure. Your piping is underground, my experiment was outside. Your piping has latent heat from pool walls, pool patio, soil, and concrete (if in a collar on the bottom). Not 100% of the water needs to be removed.

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I would not clear the lines again, but add antifreeze in both the skimmer(s) and return lines. You should be able to get into the returns if you have a disconnect somewhere. You signature does not reflect an SWG, etc. This will give you a piece of mind.
 
Thanks for the quick response! I ended up just ordering a Cyclone so I can blow out the lines again for some peace of mind.

On booster pump my question wasn't so much how to drain the pump itself but rather if I need to blow out the line between the booster pump and the pool in addition to the return lines or if I should be able to blow it out completely by pumping air out the pressure side of the pad.

Specifically do I need to do anything with the smaller tube that is coming off of the booster pump and going into the ground in this picture?


Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 3.27.09 PM.jpg
 
Specifically do I need to do anything with the smaller tube that is coming off of the booster pump and going into the ground in this picture?
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No, air travels this way as well when clearing the lines. I have closed a pool with a similar set up, we do not disconnect, and have had no issues. If it was not for the 6 closings that I do per year (all friends of course, not in the business), the Cyclone may have not been in the picture. Definitely a great tool, and very portable. You could have performed the closing with the blow thru plugs as well. I always bring my air compressor and plugs in the event the Cyclone every calls it quits.

Did you order the hose that slips on to the Cyclone? You will need a 1.5" hose, around 6'. The hose is flexible enough to place in the bump basket as this year, I closed a friends pool who had a Hayward Pump, but moved on to either Jandy or Pentair (I do not even know), but it was a round lid. There was plenty of air to move water.
 
I did order a 6' hose to put on the Cyclone. The only thing I won't have is the modified pump lid like you've described and like the guys who closed my pool last year had. I think I'll be able to do all the blowouts through the skimmers and other pipe disconnects at the pad.
 
I got the Cyclone today and just finished up blowing out the lines for a second time. It didn't get a ton more water out but a bit, certainly enough to help me sleep over the winter and I'm sure it will make the whole process faster next year.

The only lingering question is me trying to understand how the Polaris booster pump works. Does it just blow air through that smaller pipe directly to the "return line" that I attach the pool cleaner to? Other than when I first ran the compressor on the return lines I haven't been able to get any more water to come out of it, even blowing the return lines again today with the Cyclone.
 
The only lingering question is me trying to understand how the Polaris booster pump works. Does it just blow air through that smaller pipe directly to the "return line" that I attach the pool cleaner to? Other than when I first ran the compressor on the return lines I haven't been able to get any more water to come out of it, even blowing the return lines again today with the Cyclone.
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Yes, the Polaris is cleared out at the same time and runs the sequence. The spigot valve should have been wide open when clearing the lines. Think about everything logically, air moves to the path of least resistance. If water runs through piping during the normal course of operation, then air will run the same course (with no exceptions, unless something has been closed off). That simple!
 

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