Removing Pump Timer & Switch

[KDpoolguy]

KD,

I agree with Ted, just remove the power to the clock motor.. Then label the box "Emergency Cutoff"....

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim and Ted, that’s what I ended up doing. Best possible outcome.

While I was working outdoors and heard this nails-on-chalkboard pump whine from 3 houses down! I walked down and it was a dying pump still moving water, but clearly if it was smoking or otherwise I would instinctively reached for the timer box to turn off. That’s what ultimately made my decision instead of wirenut bypass.

 

[ajw22]

Re: Removing Pump Timer & Switch

Yes, so when timer manual on/off switch is moved to OFF, the relay (that’s powered off Load from timer 2/4) disengages while also removing power from pump.

I don't think the relay is powered from the timer. I think the power to the pump runs through the relay to the pump. I think the relay is powered by your GFCI.

Just tied into pool pump, but It’s hard to figure out all the wires, as some are just powered off the relays, without any reliance on their on/off status (i.e. heater seems to get power off one of them). The 2 top relays are powered off 2 different 20 amp CB’s, so both must be on to run main pump.

Someone wanted to create a master control through those relays and automation before pool automation panels were very mature.

Not really, but short of opening up all junction boxes to see where wires go to places other than pump, and as long as relays are working, I’m good with just leave them be. Is that what you’re asking?

Yes. Eventually you can figure out what the original intent of the relay setup was.

Thank you for the swift help. Gonna take a break for the day. The GFI (Leviton Blankface 20amp GFCI) I replaced months ago still isn’t working (argh).

Why would the light switch (pump switch) only work on the GFI curcuit? As soon as I discovered this, I wanted to keep timer manual switch on and active since it has master control of the pump if the GFI circuit is off or GFI itself is tripped.

I believe all the relays run on 120V. The GFCI provides 120V to each relay to pull the relay closed. The light switch is wired to cut the 120V power to the pump relay, or multiple relays, and open it which turns off power to your pump.

The reason that is needed is you can't switch both hot lines of a 240V circuit on and off through a light switch like that. A relay can handle the higher amp switching and switch both lines of a 240V circuit as required by code.

PUMP 240V CB
!
TIMER
!
Relay <--120V AC to pull relay <-- LIGHT SWITCH <--- GFCI
!
PUMP

You can remove power from the pump at the PUMP CB, the TIMER, or the LIGHT SWITCH which de-powers the relay.

That GFCI probably powers all the relays and maybe other 120V circuits. The GFCI tripping means it sees a ground fault among all the things it poweres. The way to diagnose the problem is identify all the things powered by the GFCI circuit and disconnect them all and reconnect them one at a time. When you reconnect the bad device the GFCI will trip.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Removing Pump Timer &amp; Switch

Thanks Allen! Gonna take a closer look on the panel and your post tomorrow with a fresh morning coffee.

It makes sense to view the relay energizing from 120v. I’m just no expert in 220 wiring, strange as I used to apprentice for an HVAC company,
and it takes me hours of staring at wiring-but at least I’m interested enough to stare and figure out.

I’m out of my depth to mess with current setup, but I did look at automation for the first time. I think I could tackle it (if we keep house) along with a heater replacement and install of SWG. The Hayward Omnilogic makes sense with my current pump. I’ve seen it up close an older model (2006) with dedicated remote. Love how from anywhere (now all done with phone apps) it turned on pump, spa heat on, rotated all necessary valves and turned on spa jets. Most of it goes unused in setups I’ve seen, but good future proofing. My only concern is running low voltage wire 20 feet to new motorized Jandy Valves which are closer too pool (not on equipment pad).

I presume I could gut the relay box, and breaker box and replace the wiring that doesn’t run too far away and install the Omnilogic unit. I want my wife to feel comfortable using the spa, and 2 summers ago she sat in a salt water spa and now refuses to use ours that it’ll dry her out. So adding automation and SWG would really meet our future needs. Looking to change our pools story.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Anyone have comments on Hayward’s OnCommand system as a retrofit for my old pool (1987)? Would love to hear any input on this or other retrofit automation.

Amazon.com : Hayward ONCOM-ACT-RC OnCommand Controller System with 2 Actuators, 6 Function Remote and Wireless Antenna : Swimming Pool Safety Products : Garden Outdoor