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Thread: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

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    Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    I just found this pool heater cost analysis program on the AquaCal website. I installed it and it works very well. Very detailed calculations although they seem to be tied to just a few brands of heaters. It looks like a heat pump is much cheaper than natural gas. It does pool volume calculations and includes local weather data by the half month. Very nice.

    http://aquacal.com/index.php?option=com ... &Itemid=72

    File Name: PoolAuditSetup.exe
    Version: 5.0
    Date: August 27, 2009
    Language: English
    Download Size: 17.7 MB
    "Whatever happened to the guy who drained his whole pool?"
    27,000 gal plaster in-ground
    Compupool 40k SWG from eBay - works great!
    Polaris 380
    Hayward DE
    1.4 HP Hayward Northstar pump
    Two FAFCO Solar Bear panels now heating the pool!

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    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ft Lauderdale, Florida
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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Thanks Hal3. If anyone has questions on the Heat Pump Audit, you can contact me.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
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    Location
    South Central NJ
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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Any chance of making it a Java based applet for a browser so those of us with Macs and Linux can use it?

    Scott
    PoolGuyNJ
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Scott,
    Wouldn't hurt to ask right? I'll let you know. Thanks for the suggestion.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    There is an update to this.

    File Name: PoolAuditSetup.exe
    Version: 6.0
    Date: June 30, 2010
    Language: English
    Download Size: 17.6 MB

    http://www.aquacal.com/sizing.html

    Uninstall the old one before installing.

    It sure would be nice to heat that pool and get in a few months early!

    What ever happened to the Solar Heater as a separate Discussion Topic suggestion?
    "Whatever happened to the guy who drained his whole pool?"
    27,000 gal plaster in-ground
    Compupool 40k SWG from eBay - works great!
    Polaris 380
    Hayward DE
    1.4 HP Hayward Northstar pump
    Two FAFCO Solar Bear panels now heating the pool!

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
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    Central Massachusetts
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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    I'll download it when I get a chance and look at it but I'll go out on a limb and say it'$ most likely a touch biased. A lot of these types of analysis use very favorable eleric rates, max btu ratings, COP ratings that are at the top of the range etc. By my research, I've found that with electric rates between 10 to 20 cents and gas around $1 per therm, gas is about as cheap or equal in price to a heat pump when you use realistic COP values.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    OK. Here's the problem:

    Looks I probably need the HeatWave SuperQuiet SQ 175.

    Next I want to see the ........ PRICE!!!!

    No, I don't want a dealer to contact me.

    Yes, I know installation costs will vary.

    Yes, I know the local company is making a profit on the price they will quote - plus installation.

    I just want to know a price so that I can do an eyeball comparison to purchasing a natural gas heater and the prices of these are posted everywhere.

    Also - in the next version of the program I would like to see an option to heat weekends only - Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday to sunset.

    I suspect that will push the numbers back in favor of gas but that is how I would heat the pool if it saved money.

    Still, this is a very cool program for anyone looking for real local data on the cost of running heat pump versus gas.
    "Whatever happened to the guy who drained his whole pool?"
    27,000 gal plaster in-ground
    Compupool 40k SWG from eBay - works great!
    Polaris 380
    Hayward DE
    1.4 HP Hayward Northstar pump
    Two FAFCO Solar Bear panels now heating the pool!

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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    I'm trying to download it now. But as an aside, for weekend only heat, gas is the only way to go. Heat pupms are meant to keep the temp up 24/7. If you olny heat a couple days out of the week, it would not be practical to use a heat pump.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Ah Ha!!!

    A fellow cynic!

    Actually, it is a much cooler program than you suspect.

    You HAVE to put in your local rates for gas and electric.

    It downloads YOUR local weather if you live in a major city or you can just use the nearest city.

    You program in your own size, depth, wind exposure, etc.

    Then you get the data.

    It is tied to their brands but the numbers should apply to any brand.

    I'm paying .06 per KwH and .47 per ccf. (city-owned, not privately owned)

    A ccf is about equal to a therm so you don't have to look it up.


    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    I'll download it when I get a chance and look at it but I'll go out on a limb and say it'$ most likely a touch biased. A lot of these types of analysis use very favorable eleric rates, max btu ratings, COP ratings that are at the top of the range etc. By my research, I've found that with electric rates between 10 to 20 cents and gas around $1 per therm, gas is about as cheap or equal in price to a heat pump when you use realistic COP values.
    "Whatever happened to the guy who drained his whole pool?"
    27,000 gal plaster in-ground
    Compupool 40k SWG from eBay - works great!
    Polaris 380
    Hayward DE
    1.4 HP Hayward Northstar pump
    Two FAFCO Solar Bear panels now heating the pool!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Ok, i looked at it. Although you can put in your rates for gas and power, the program uses the set BTU and COP ratings for their product with no way to alter them. I can guarantee you will not get that BTU rating except under IDEAL conditions. If you use realistic BTU out puts that you will get on either end of the swim season, the cost to run a gas vs heat pump will be very simialr given a buck a therm and 10-20 cents electric rates. Even though the generation charge might be 6 cents, when you add taxes, transmission charges, fees, etc, the rates are higher. Check it out and see if you 6 cents is the TOTAL charge per kw/hr.
    Now I have no doubt that during heart of the swim season a heat pump is more cost effective to keep the pool warm, on the tail ends a gas heater is just as economical and works much better and faster.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    "Check it out and see if you 6 cents is the TOTAL charge per kw/hr"

    I just called and asked the power company.

    Where else could they be hiding a charge?
    "Whatever happened to the guy who drained his whole pool?"
    27,000 gal plaster in-ground
    Compupool 40k SWG from eBay - works great!
    Polaris 380
    Hayward DE
    1.4 HP Hayward Northstar pump
    Two FAFCO Solar Bear panels now heating the pool!

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Location
    Central Massachusetts
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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Look at the bill; it should be broken out. Some power companies add on transmission charges. If you want to know the true cost, just divide the total bill by kw used and that will give you a true number.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Hal3

    The program is optimistic; however, not overly optimistic.

    The program calculates the costs for the heat pump based on the FULL rated output using 80 f for the entire heating cycle.

    In order to factor in for the reduced output at lower temperatures, calculate the number of hours per month when temps are in the 60s. Then multiply that hourly operational cost by 1.25. This should give you a fairly accurate monthly cost for these units and other brands of comparable size.

    The 1.25 Winter adjustment factor can be found on page 22 of the Autopilot heat pump guide.
    http://www.aquacal.com/images/stories/p ... manual.pdf

    Entering the specifications for my pool and using a comparable output/input autopilot product yields monthly rates comparable to the actual costs that I pay during the warmer part of the season. Applying the 1.25 adjustment factor for the first and last month of operation yields accurate monthly rates during the beginning and end of the swim season.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To get the most accurate information, you need to input the total energy costs.
    Base electricity rates in my area are 8.8 cents/kwh
    After the environmental compliance fee, nuclear construction cost recovery fee, municipal franchise fee and sales tax are added to the bill, I then divide by the total number of kw used to calculate a cost of 10 cents/kwh.
    I enter 0.10 into the Electric kw rate on the AquaCal program.

    Calculate the total natural gas cost per therm in the same manner. Your total bill divided by the total therms used.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The program default is to heat to 80 F, but you can override the temperature difference. If you wanted to calculate for heating to 85 f then add 5 degrees to the temperature difference value.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A very useful and educational program.

    Thank you for posting the link
    poolschoolgrad

    20x40 free-form IG vinyl, 1hp Hayward superpump, Hayward pro grid DE filter, Raypak heatpump, Goldline Aquarite SWCG, Polaris 280 with booster, and tested using a Taylor K2006.

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    guamguy's Avatar
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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    I tried to download it just for fun (don't need a heater here!). The program installed fine, but wouldn't let me get started when I clicked on the pool audit button. I'll try it later on another computer, the program may not like win7 64-bit.
    12,800 gallon IG plaster kidney-shaped pool, waterslide, 800 gallon spa.
    1HP 2 speed Sta-Rite pool pump, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite spa jet pump. 2 skimmers, 1 main drain
    Purex-Triton TR-60 325 lb.sand filter. 2" Plumbing, Intex SWCG, TF-100 test kit.
    Link to pics of my pool! http://www.troublefreepool.com/my-oasis-t26558.html

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    Re: Nice pool heater analysis program recently posted at AquaCal

    Quote Originally Posted by guamguy
    I tried to download it just for fun (don't need a heater here!). The program installed fine, but wouldn't let me get started when I clicked on the pool audit button. I'll try it later on another computer, the program may not like win7 64-bit.
    Just "copy" the program folder from C:\program files(x86) to C:\program files
    Has to be copy unless you want to update the shortcuts etc.

    Work for me on win7/64 pro.

    Mugs
    Pool: 18x36 ~24k, DE, IG, Vinyl

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