aa1113's conversion

[polyvue]

We have not used the pool for about 2 months.

I checked the PH again this morning and is still around 7.7 (pinkish) after another 16 ounces last night.

Frustration...

If you went from 6 to 3.5, then you have organics consuming the FC.

Once you get the PH under control, you'll need to shock the pool and continue shocking till the FC holds overnight, and then you can proceed with closing.

I don't mean to add to your frustration aa1113... but it looks as though, as frustratedpoolmom said, you need to shock the pool so that your chlorine loss is minimal and you kill (oxidize) all remaining organics and residual baq chemicals.

Moreover, after following the superb advice provided by FPM, Butterfly and others to get your pH and chlorine levels in line, I would just reduce the pump hours and leave the pool open for the winter. Was this your plan? Depending on where you are in the Southland you can still get some warm days during the next month or so, and then starting again in February... so why reopen to renew a battle when you can just stir the water a bit every day, add chlorine as needed, etc.?

 

[aa1113]

Yes, I have the right % in the calculator. I have double checked it a couple of times. I just added another 16 ounces of MA since the PH is still 7.8. I am pouring it all around the pool with the filter running. Is that the correct way?

Right now (5:45 PM) the FC is 5 and the CC 0.5. Good numbers, except the PH.

It was holding overnight but the last time it did not. Let's see what tomorrow morning shows.

So I should wait to shock it after the PH goes down, right?

I was planning to cover it, so that leaves and dirt don't get in it. Last year I covered it and run the pump for a couple of hours a week. Also with Baquacil you don't need to put the chemicals or even check them every day. We did them every couple of weeks. Sounds like chlorine is more demanding.

Thanks for all the help!

Can we put a floating chlorinator in for the winter? I know it has calcium but it may help. Ideas?

 

[polyvue]

I just added another 16 ounces of MA since the PH is still 7.8. I am pouring it all around the pool with the filter running. Is that the correct way?

Adding 16 fluid oz. of 14.5% muriatic acid to 5000 gallons of water with a pH of 7.8 should bring the pH down to at least 7.4 (or a bit below). It doesn't really matter how you add it -- pouring it around the pool should be fine. However, I'd run the pump, cleaner and anything else that will stir the water for at least an hour or two before you re-measure pH.

Right now (5:45 PM) the FC is 5 and the CC 0.5. Good numbers, except the PH. It was holding overnight but the last time it did not. Let's see what tomorrow morning shows. So I should wait to shock it after the PH goes down, right?

I'd recommend waiting until the pH is exactly where you want it (~7.5) before shocking the pool.

I was planning to cover it, so that leaves and dirt don't get in it. Last year I covered it and run the pump for a couple of hours a week. Also with Baquacil you don't need to put the chemicals or even check them every day. We did them every couple of weeks. Sounds like chlorine is more demanding.

Every pool is different but once you're "closed" you don't need to check chlorine every day. If you plan to cover it, close it with high shock values--high Free Chlorine (FC) ppm--and you'll be OK.

Can we put a floating chlorinator in for the winter? I know it has calcium but it may help. Ideas?

I don't know what other people do. Most folks in California don't really close their pools... perhaps someone here that does can offer their opinion or experience.

 

[aa1113]

This morning my PH was still 7.8 (pinkish). I usually let the pump run for an hour or 2 after I add the MA. I don't know what else to do to bring the PH down. I have been adding MA like crazy. I am almost done with a gallon. Why is it not going down? I am afraid to keep adding more MA.

This morning at 5:00 AM, my FC was 5 and CC 0.5. I just checked it at 6:30 PM and the FC is 4. I did not add any more chlorine. I actually started the test with the R870 and it did not turn pink. I dumped it and started again and then it turned pink. I think that is the problem I am having with the results sometimes. I am doing exactry the same thing. I can do it with my eyes closed. I have been coverting since September 3! I think my overnight FC is good.

If I can only get the PH down!

 

[polyvue]

This morning my PH was still 7.8 (pinkish). I usually let the pump run for an hour or 2 after I add the MA. I don't know what else to do to bring the PH down. I have been adding MA like crazy. I am almost done with a gallon. Why is it not going down? I am afraid to keep adding more MA.

This morning at 5:00 AM, my FC was 5 and CC 0.5. I just checked it at 6:30 PM and the FC is 4. I did not add any more chlorine. I actually started the test with the R870 and it did not turn pink. I dumped it and started again and then it turned pink. I think that is the problem I am having with the results sometimes. I am doing exactry the same thing. I can do it with my eyes closed. I have been coverting since September 3! I think my overnight FC is good.

If I can only get the PH down!

Don't beat yourself up over this! We'll figure this out. Just a few questions that may help diagnose what's going on. No right or wrong answers here...

-- Chlorine test --

1. Were you using 10 mL, 25 ml or some other amount of pool sample water?
2. How many scoops of R0870 DPD powder did you use when it did not turn pink?
3. After dumping sample to start again, did you rinse the vial before re-testing?

-- pH test --

The color is often difficult to match even when the test is done perfectly...

4. Is there someone else in your house who can provide you with an "independent" opinion on the pH level? (Not verification. It's tempting but you don't want to suggest to them what you think the right answer is before getting their evaluation.)

5. Other than muriatic acid and chlorine has anything else been added to the pool in the last 10 days (anything at all)?

With these questions I'm trying to rule out several possibilities: a) that FC level is possibly higher than you think, resulting in interference with the pH test; b) the pH is actually at an acceptable level; it's just difficult to pinpoint the color (the time of day, ambient light, even the direction you face while identifying the color can affect how it appears to different people); and c) that there is another substance that is contributing to pH rise.

Anyway, if you feel comfortable in answering these queries, perhaps some of the smarter folks here can figure it out and you'll be a bit closer to putting this to rest.

 

[aa1113]

-- Chlorine test --

1. Were you using 10 mL, 25 ml or some other amount of pool sample water? 10 ml
2. How many scoops of R0870 DPD powder did you use when it did not turn pink? 1 scoop
3. After dumping sample to start again, did you rinse the vial before re-testing?Always

-- pH test --

The color is often difficult to match even when the test is done perfectly...

4. Is there someone else in your house who can provide you with an "independent" opinion on the pH level? (Not verification. It's tempting but you don't want to suggest to them what you think the right answer is before getting their evaluation.)Yes, both of my adult daughters also check it for me. They agree is 7.8

5. Other than muriatic acid and chlorine has anything else been added to the pool in the last 10 days (anything at all)? Yes, some other PH minus granules. Sorry I am at work and don't have the brand, some letters, like HTS or something


This morning 5:30 AM, FC is 3.5

Again thanks.

 

[polyvue]

Thanks. Nothing in your responses would lead me to think that the test results you're getting are incorrect. Sometimes more than 1 scoop of DPD powder is needed to turn the sample pink, so that's OK. Your measured overnight chlorine loss, from 4 to this morning's 3.5, is within normal limits. Nor to my knowledge should there be a problem adding HTH pH Minus (dry acid or sodium bisulfate) to pool water that has a relatively high pH. Subject to wiser heads here who may have further advice for you, I think you're definitely in the home stretch... Keep chlorine at present levels, add more muriatic acid to get the pH down a bit more, then you're done.

 

[aa1113]

5:45 PM readings with my daughter's help:

FC= 1.5 (it was hot today)

PH same 7.8

I just added more chlorine and MA.

 

[aa1113]

Well, no matter what I do and how much MA I use, the PH does not go under 7.8. I have used 2 gallons already. Today I shocked it and added the Poly60. THe Poly is oily!

TOmorrow we are cleaning the filter and covering it after adding some chlorine. I added some more MA today also.

At this point I am so frustrated and have taken so much time for this conversion that I am missing the Bacquacil.

I hope it gets better. It looks like no one has any other suggestion to lower the PH.

THank everyone for your help.

 

[polyvue]

Well, no matter what I do and how much MA I use, the PH does not go under 7.8. I have used 2 gallons already.

At this point I am so frustrated and have taken so much time for this conversion that I am missing the Bacquacil.

It looks like no one has any other suggestion to lower the PH.

I'm perplexed that your additions of Muriatic Acid (and dry acid) have not been able to reduce the pH to below 7.8. Just 2 1/2 Cups of 14.5% MA and an hour of circulation should bring the pH down from 7.8 to 7.5 (or below) in your 5000 gallon pool.

Total Alkalinity levels are likewise inexplicable: 210, 120, 200... The TA should be going down.

 

[JasonLion]

I wonder if the test results are correct? That much acid in that small a pool should have a dramatic effect on the PH. So either the acid isn't really acid, or the test results are wrong.

 

[polyvue]

TOmorrow we are cleaning the filter and covering it after adding some chlorine. I added some more MA today also.

All good things must come to an end. You may want to consider draining and refilling when you open in the spring. That way you'll get a fresh start and we won't have to guess about why the pH is being so stubborn. Hope to see you back here then, if not before! :-D

 

[aa1113]

We closed the pool for the summer today.

Yesterday I added shock and Poly 60 and run the pump for over 24 hours. I also added another 16 ounces of MA (I am buying the MA at Lowes or Home Depot in the pool department) We vacummed, brushed and cleaned the filter and skimmer sock.

This morning I tested all the chemicals.

FC- 7.5- I think this is because of the shock.
CC=1
TA=200
CYA=30
PH still 7.8- added another 16 ounces of new MA we just bought this morning.

When we took the ladder out I checked everything and there is no Bacquacil or algae. The pool water is sparking clean, beautiful.

We covered it and put the balls under. We also put a chlorine tablet in a chlorinator as we are going away for 4 days. We put it in the middle of the pool.

At this point I need a break from the pool and the chemicals. I will run the pump for shorter time and maybe every other day. With the Bacquacil I run the pump once a week. Will also check the chlorine every 3-4 days.

Wish me luck next spring!

Thanks everyone.

 

[PaulR]

What you've been reporting really seems to be outside our collective experience. Your TA was 200 on 10/19, and is still 200 despite adding a real lot of acid (even if it was 14.5%). And your pH hasn't budged either. Neither of those things makes sense. You also mentioned pH Minus of some form; can you read off the ingredients from the container? If it was accidentally pH Plus then all would become clear.
--paulr