Help! Terribly Cloudy and won’t clear up

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Flowerchild3167

Flowerchild3167

0
May 25, 2018
22
Meridian, MS
Hi all! Hoping to find some help here. My pool store is about to kill me on supplies, and we STILL can’t swim. I have an intex above ground chlorine pool... 18’x36’x52” rectangular with a sand filter.
My issue is this: I opened the pool a month ago. Vacuumed the leaves and debris, super shocked, vacuumed again, repeat... all of the debris is gone, and the water is not deep green, but now it’s a lovely shade of aqua/teal and so cloudy you can only see about a foot deep. My chemicals are reading as follows:
CL: 4
PH: 7.2
TA: 130
CH: 120
CYA: 20

(I see here on TFP that chlorine is registered as FC and CC. The kit I’m currently uses shows CL as “total chlorine” which I’m assuming would be the same as FC?)

That being said, the pool store had me use a product called Back to Blue. I dumped two canisters plus two lbs of shock in the pool, ran the filter for 15 minutes, and then dumped two of the kits second canisters (which looks like red dirt) and ran filter for 2.5 hours. Shut everything off and allowed to sit for 48 hours, at which point I vacuumed to waste, again. Technically the pool should have been clear at this point, but nope! Please help!! I’m at a loss and my kids desperately want to swim! Any advice to help clear this up so they can get in would be greatly appreciated! TIA
 
Welcome to the TFP pool! :splash:

Your test kit is not up to the job of clearing your pool and using solid forms of chlorine to clear the pool may be making it worse. The math for chlorine is FC + CC = TC. You kit only test TC, which doesn't tell us a lot. Plus, you need to know CYA (stabilizer) to determine how much chlorine you should have in the water according to this table [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

So, my first suggestion is to stop going to the pool store for their magic potions. Their only response it to sell you something like the Back to Blue, which helps their bottom line but doesn't do much for the pool as you discovered.

I will tell you, it didn't turn green overnight and it will take time to clear. But, we can teach you how to get it sparkling and keep it that way for a lot less money than the pool store.

Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. Plus, the results of their "testing" is used to convince you that you need to buy things. Why do you think that testing is free?

But, what can you do?? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that you need your own accurate test kit. Order a TF100 test kit and at least include the XL option. That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.

While you wait for it to get delivered, you have a homework reading assignment. Start with these: ABCs of Water Chemistry
Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
Recommended Pool Chemicals
How to Chlorinate Your Pool

Please don't go back to the pool store for a test kit. To effectively practice the TFPC methods, the FAS/DPD chlorine test is essential. The TF100 test kit has this test while very few other kits do. The kits sold at the pool store generally won't won't cut it, but be careful pool store employees are known to say “it's the same thing”. Generally it's not!

Until you get your kit, each day I want you to put one bottle of bleach (yes, the same stuff you use for laundry) in the pool with the filter running. Be careful, it needs to be plain bleach, no scents, no EZ-Pour and none of the new Cloramax or laundry enhancing formulas.

Continue brushing and running the filter, cleaning the filter as necessary.
 
I've just ordered the kit you referenced above, and you are so right about pool store testing!! I quit taking a sample to them because they are only using dip strips to test, and then laying it flat on the back of the bottle (which makes all the colors run together) to "match" the colors. :suspect: I will be reading those links you provided, but one question I have: should I be running the pump 24/7 for the time being, and also, should I continue to try and vacuum each day, or just brushing? Sorry for all the questions, but thank you so much for all the great help! :grin: Oh, and my CYA level is 20ppm

Here's a photo of my current situation for reference. 20180604_171937250_iOS.jpg20180604_171924340_iOS.jpg
 
Questions are fine, it's how we learn.

If the vacuum is getting stuff out of the water, then yes - vacuum also.

At this point you don't need to be running the pump 24/7, that will come later.
 
Until you get the kit keep running the pump and getting stuff out of the pool. For now you can add a gallon of bleach a day until you get the kit and we can get the numbers checked out. The test kit should get to you pretty quick, its generally just a day or two for shipping.

The more junk and crud you get out of the pool the quicker your SLAM Process will go.
 
Welcome to the forum! You are where I was last year. And look at the thread I just posted the other day: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/163649-Trouble-free-at-last!-Thanks!

Based on my experience last year, I highly recommend the advice to stay away from the pool store as they are quick to sell you something and slow to actually listen and help. I've got a bottle of some magic potion that was the final straw from last year. In the end, you will really only need: bleach (for now), conditioner (CYA), borax and muriatic acid.

In addition to the TF-100, you should also order the Speedstir and the pH pen. They are significant time savers especially when you are in this situation and having to test a bunch.

I see you also have the default Intex skimmer. I would highly recommend replacing it with the in-wall Hayward hack that others have mentioned. I go so tired of the floating skimmer not staying in place and not working. This new in-wall Hayward hack is so much better.

It was unclear what pump and filter you are running. With as much growth as you have in the pool, you should be backwashing daily to keep it working optimally with all that it has to deal with.

I'm assuming you aren't running a SWCG since it isn't mentioned but let us know if you are.

I'm relatively new but agree with the advice to dump a bottle of plain bleach and just run the filter until your test kit comes. I'd also suggest that given the size of your pool you might want to add two gallons of bleach at a time. Using PoolMath, those 18' x 36' dimensions give 19,400 gallons and adding a 120oz (~gallon) bottle of bleach only raises FC by 3 points which isn't much and probably isn't doing much to slow the growth.

Keep updating this thread with a daily pic and daily measurements and lets see how we can help you.
 
Wow, your pool looks amazing!! I'm ready for ours to be at that level.

I'll definitely check into the Hayward hack you mentioned. I HATE the one we have! Didn't know there was an alternative, so thank you!

We currently have a chlorine pool. I've got a SWG set up we could use, but we've had so much trouble that I haven't even tried with running it.

As of today, the pool still looks exactly the same as the above photos, so I won't bother posting another. I don't believe there's any debris in the pool though. I can vacuum and not pick up anything at this point. Can't wait to get my test kit and get this ball rolling!! **impatiently watching the mail**
 
Sounds good. Just keep running the pump and cleaning your filter.

When you are vacuuming, you may want to keep an eye on the water as it runs into the pump (the tank right before the pump with the clear lid). Even when my water looked perfectly clean and I could see the bottom just fine, my CC level was still around 1 and when I would run my vacuum down a new path on the bottom, the water in that tank became noticeably more cloudy compared to just sitting in one spot. So from my visual inspection the pool looked great but the numbers were off just a little which indicated a little bit of something still in there.
 
Flowerchild3167 said:
I'll definitely check into the Hayward hack you mentioned. I HATE the one we have! Didn't know there was an alternative, so thank you!
Click to expand...

Again, I highly recommend the Hayward skimmer modification. Check the sticky thread in this forum for links to posts that walk you through the process. You will need:

Flowerchild3167 said:
18’x36’x52” rectangular with a sand filter.
Click to expand...

While we are waiting, can you:
  1. Confirm the size of the pool and update your signature with your details about the pool. I say 'confirm' because I am not seeing an 18' x 36' on the Intex site (lots of 16' x 32'). And also specify whether an UltraFrame or some other version.
  2. Figure out how many gallons are in your pool at the level that you keep it at. We can't use the straight 18'x36'x52" calculation since your water level isn't actually 52". It is probably 48" and maybe less. There should be a mention in the manual about filling it up to the bottom of the gray is xx,xxx gallons. Then I use roughly 3% for each vertical square on the liner. So, my volume at 100% (to the bottom of the gray) is 8400 but I keep it down 1 square which is about 97% (because of my Hayward skimmer mouth) which makes the volume around 8100 gallons. This will be useful to know once you start using the PoolMath page to figure out how much of the different chemicals to add.

I even went as far as marking up the side of the pool with the different levels so that it was easier for me to remember and calculate.
SyPpcF8l.jpg


And here you can see what level I keep it at (~97%) because of the Hayward skimmer.
hsXNG00l.jpg
 
While we are waiting, can you:
  1. Confirm the size of the pool and update your signature with your details about the pool. I say 'confirm' because I am not seeing an 18' x 36' on the Intex site (lots of 16' x 32'). And also specify whether an UltraFrame or some other version.
  2. Figure out how many gallons are in your pool at the level that you keep it at. We can't use the straight 18'x36'x52" calculation since your water level isn't actually 52". It is probably 48" and maybe less. There should be a mention in the manual about filling it up to the bottom of the gray is xx,xxx gallons. Then I use roughly 3% for each vertical square on the liner. So, my volume at 100% (to the bottom of the gray) is 8400 but I keep it down 1 square which is about 97% (because of my Hayward skimmer mouth) which makes the volume around 8100 gallons. This will be useful to know once you start using the PoolMath page to figure out how much of the different chemicals to add.
Click to expand...

We bought the pool used and it did not come with a manual or any information. At this point, it's about 8 years old total age (we've had it for 3 years.) We went off the info the previous owner gave us, which was the size I listed previously. That being said, I've just gone and measured the pool and it is not in fact 18'x36', but rather 16'x32'x52" and I've updated my sig to represent this info. We do not keep water to the full 52", of course, but right at 48", which with the adjusted measurements, makes it 15,300 gallons.

All that being said, I've just received my test kit in the mail this morning! I have to admit, I'm incredibly shocked by the results.

FC: 10.5
CC: 0.5
PH: 7.3
CH: 200
TA: 140
CYA: 90

It still looks the same as far as color and cloudiness. To say I'm aggravated would be the understatement of the century! NEVER. GOING. BACK. TO. POOL. STORES!
 

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Before reacting to the TA test, please read through Pool School - Total Alkalinity

Especially the following -
Sometimes a static electric charge can build up on the R-0009 dropper bottle tip, causing the drops to be smaller than usual and making the test read higher than actual. You can prevent this by wipping the tip of the dropper bottle with a damp cloth or tissue before you start and after each drop.
 
mknauss said:
Before reacting to the TA test, please read through Pool School - Total Alkalinity

Especially the following -
Sometimes a static electric charge can build up on the R-0009 dropper bottle tip, causing the drops to be smaller than usual and making the test read higher than actual. You can prevent this by wipping the tip of the dropper bottle with a damp cloth or tissue before you start and after each drop.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. I thought I wiped it well eough the first time, but upon doing it again just now and going REALLY slowly and taking extra precaution to wipe the tip of the bottle thoroughly, TA reads 140

I did read the above mentioned post about TA, but should I leave a TA of 140, or would it be best to adjust down a bit?
 
I see no reason for you to actively reduce TA. Depending on your fill water TA and how much you need to add due to evaporation/splash out, your TA should drift down as you add acid to maintain your pH in the 7's.
 
Actually if you have a CYA of 90 I would be replacing about 50% of your water before trying to SLAM Process your pool and get it clear. You need a LOT of chlorine to SLAM with a CYA of 90.

Chances are that will bring your TA down a bit but even still I wouldn't be too worried about TA just yet. Since your pH is at 7.2 it doesn't seem that the elevated TA is really messing with your water too much.
 
So at this point, correct me if I'm wrong... I'm assuming we need to partially drain some water and refill to lower the CYA levels some, and then start the SLAM process?

- - - Updated - - -

CJadamec said:
Actually if you have a CYA of 90 I would be replacing about 50% of your water before trying to SLAM Process your pool and get it clear. You need a LOT of chlorine to SLAM with a CYA of 90.

Chances are that will bring your TA down a bit but even still I wouldn't be too worried about TA just yet. Since your pH is at 7.2 it doesn't seem that the elevated TA is really messing with your water too much.
Click to expand...

Haha I think we were both typing at the same time :)
 
Flowerchild3167 said:
So at this point, correct me if I'm wrong... I'm assuming we need to partially drain some water and refill to lower the CYA levels some, and then start the SLAM process?

- - - Updated - - -



Haha I think we were both typing at the same time :)
Click to expand...


That's a good thing that means you are already on top of it and have been doing your homework. It won't be long and you will be posting pics of your nice crustal clean pool.
 
If you are lucky it will be ready by mid next week might be a little chilly from the water exchange though. Do you have any current pictures? you pool looked like it should be a quick SLAM at first.
 
Follow the slam and do your tests and you should have that clear in no time. It can be very helpful motivationally to take a picture of the same view every day or twice a day. It's much easier to see the water change color that way.
 

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