We just opened our pool a few days ago. The water is pretty green and tests show that there is no CYA and only 1 ppm of chlorine in the pool. Alkilinity is also low. We shocked it but it didn't help clear up the algae since there is no CYA. I know that I need to increase the alkalinity with some baking soda. I need some advice, however, on how we can quickly raise the CYA before this pool turns into a swamp. According to the package instructions of the stabilizer, it will take 72 hours to increase the CYA. If I do nothing to this pool in 72 hours, I'm afraid the algae will get worse since it is so hot. Could I just shock with diclor until my CYA level gets to 30? I know that each 10 ppm increase with diclor adds 9 CYA so I could increase the CYA to 30 and increase my chlorine at the same time without having to add an enormous amount of diclor. Does this sound like It would work or is there a chance that it might fail since there would be no CYA in the water when the diclor shock is added?
Zero CYA after opening
- Thread starter al27
- Start date
Welcome back. We'll help you get your pool all cleaned up.
You'll need to perform the SLAM Process procedure as described in Pool School to clean the water. Unfortunately, your pool is still green because one dose of shock doesn't clear a green pool. Can you let us know which test kit you are using? We would like to see some test results before we make recommendations on adding chemicals. Depending on the test methods, CYA may not actually be zero. For a green pool, TA isn't something you should be too worried about unless it's super low.
Now if you already have the dichlor, then you could use that but the preferred method of adding chlorine is through bleach/liquid chlorine. Adding CYA by using powdered CYA in a sock hanging in front of a return. When you add it this way, we may dose chlorine light the first day, but the next day we just assume it's there and dose chlorine as needed. There is nothing stopping you from adding chlorine while the CYA disolves. You attempt to permanently clean a green pool will likely fail either way unless you perform the SLAM Process procedure.
You'll need to perform the SLAM Process procedure as described in Pool School to clean the water. Unfortunately, your pool is still green because one dose of shock doesn't clear a green pool. Can you let us know which test kit you are using? We would like to see some test results before we make recommendations on adding chemicals. Depending on the test methods, CYA may not actually be zero. For a green pool, TA isn't something you should be too worried about unless it's super low.
Now if you already have the dichlor, then you could use that but the preferred method of adding chlorine is through bleach/liquid chlorine. Adding CYA by using powdered CYA in a sock hanging in front of a return. When you add it this way, we may dose chlorine light the first day, but the next day we just assume it's there and dose chlorine as needed. There is nothing stopping you from adding chlorine while the CYA disolves. You attempt to permanently clean a green pool will likely fail either way unless you perform the SLAM Process procedure.
My test results are as follows. They were obtained from a local pool store that uses a Taylor kit but unfortunately doesn't sell them. Results were also confirmed by a second pool store so I'm certain that the CYA really is st 0.
CYA - 0
TC - 1
FC - 1
PH - 7.6
TA - 60
salt - 1300
I've already purchased enough Dichlor to get my CYA to 30 so I'd like to use it unless it won't work. If bleach is preferable, could I possibly use it after I get the CYA up to 30 with the Diclor? Since I have a salt water pool, do I need to increase my CYA to over 30 even though it isn't working currently because of the low salt level? I assume that I shouldn't add the salt until the algae is gone so that is why I haven't added some already. I had a leak in this pool before we closed it and I got the chlorine and CYA up after it was drained with Dichlor so I'm familiar with it. I just need to know if it sounds like it will work in my current situation since algae is present this time.
Will dichlor work? Yes, it will.
While you are performing the SLAM Process procedure, don't raise the CYA above 30-40ppm. You need to keep the FC per the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] in order to effectively clear the algae. The higher the CYA, the higher the FC will need to be to be effective.
Unfortunately we don't give much credence to pool store testing and highly recommend getting your own test kit. You will need the FAS/DPD chlorine test in order to measure the FC level a few times a day during the SLAM. The FAS/DPD is also needed as part of the exit criteria of the SLAM.
I wouldn't trust that the CYA is zero. If you add CYA products, add them slowly, half of what you need and then remeasure.
As for the salt, it can be added at any time since it doesn't effect the SLAM process. You shouldn't use the SWG during the SLAM though. It won't hurt the SWG, but the SWG isn't really suitable for the quick FC additions that bleach provides. It's just best to turn the SWG off during the slam and use bleach instead. If you want, wait until the SLAM is complete then get the SWG all set to go.
While you are performing the SLAM Process procedure, don't raise the CYA above 30-40ppm. You need to keep the FC per the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] in order to effectively clear the algae. The higher the CYA, the higher the FC will need to be to be effective.
Unfortunately we don't give much credence to pool store testing and highly recommend getting your own test kit. You will need the FAS/DPD chlorine test in order to measure the FC level a few times a day during the SLAM. The FAS/DPD is also needed as part of the exit criteria of the SLAM.
I wouldn't trust that the CYA is zero. If you add CYA products, add them slowly, half of what you need and then remeasure.
As for the salt, it can be added at any time since it doesn't effect the SLAM process. You shouldn't use the SWG during the SLAM though. It won't hurt the SWG, but the SWG isn't really suitable for the quick FC additions that bleach provides. It's just best to turn the SWG off during the slam and use bleach instead. If you want, wait until the SLAM is complete then get the SWG all set to go.
If I'm understanding this correctly, I need to maintain a level of 12 if I get the CYA to 30. If I increase my FC level to 12, my CYA will only be 9 or 10 if Diclor only raises CYA by 9 for every 10 ppm. My chlorine will go much higher than 12 in order to get the CYA to 30 with the Dichlor. Is that a problem? If it is, I guess I could buy some stabilizer and use bleach instead even though I already have the Dichlor. I'd also like to know if I need to add some baking soda to increase the alkalinity before I start the slam since it is low. I know it is going to be hard to do this slam without a Taylor kit but I live very close to the store and can go there twice a day if needed. I plan on ordering one online though so I'll have it in the future. Because of the Memoral Day holiday, it will be a week before it would arrive and I can't wait that long to do this.
Correct.
If you use dichlor solely, then on the first dose this is accurate. But because you have algae in the water and no (?) CYA and the sun's UV then ALL that FC will be gone very quickly. Probably less than a few hours. You would have to dose another 12ppm Fc and that would add another 9-10ppm CYA. and ALL that FC will be gone within a few hours. So you see the CYA builds up and doesnt go away, but the FC disappears quickly to the algae, sun's UV.
You don't want to put 36ppm FC in the water at once with zero CYA. That would be bad for your pool. You could use dichlor a little at a time until you get CYA where you want it. Also, sending FC to 36 at once is just a waste of chlorine. High FC without proper CYA buffer will waste too much FC to losses that do nothing to clean your pool. This is why we like to control them separately.
This is our recommended method. Can you return the dichlor? It may be worth trying.
Your TA is not low at 60ppm, if that is an accurate number. leave it alone for now. Your main concern should be the SLAM process to clean up the pool. We can work on TA after it is clean.
I agree that it will be difficult to do the SLAM process without a proper test kit. Either the TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C. In order to consider the SLAM complete you have to pass the proper criteria. You will need the FAS/DPD chlorine test to do this and it is highly unlikely the pool store uses this test.
Also highly unlikely the PS will be able to test FC over 5ppm. As you noted, the FC needs to be at 12ppm. Their methods generally aren't compatible with the TFP methods.
So let me see if I understand my options here.
Option #1 would be to add a little Dichlor at a time until I get my CYA to 30. If I’m doing the calculations correctly, 2 pounds would add 9 CYA so I’d need about 6 pounds to get close to 30 CYA. I wouldn’t have to worry about overchlorinating my pool because a large percentage would get burned off by the sun. Should I add 2 pounds each time, and can I add it twice a day so I can hurry this along? Or should it only be added at night so less burns off? (which means it would take 3 days) If my chlorine level isn’t at SLAM level after all if this dichlor is added, should I do rest of the SLAM with bleach?
Option #2 would be to add 80 oz of stabilizer to get my CYA to 30, which will take 72 hours to disperse. I could add bleach to the pool during this time so the algae doesn’t get worse. If I did this, how much bleach could I add each day to keep the algae from getting worse while I wait on the CYA to increase? Could I speed this along by buying the expensive liquid conditioner they sell at Leslie’s so the CYA will take effect faster? I’m trying to make sure I understand what would be the fastest and easiest way to increase my CYA and chlorine so this pool doesn’t turn into a swamp.
Option #1 would be to add a little Dichlor at a time until I get my CYA to 30. If I’m doing the calculations correctly, 2 pounds would add 9 CYA so I’d need about 6 pounds to get close to 30 CYA. I wouldn’t have to worry about overchlorinating my pool because a large percentage would get burned off by the sun. Should I add 2 pounds each time, and can I add it twice a day so I can hurry this along? Or should it only be added at night so less burns off? (which means it would take 3 days) If my chlorine level isn’t at SLAM level after all if this dichlor is added, should I do rest of the SLAM with bleach?
Option #2 would be to add 80 oz of stabilizer to get my CYA to 30, which will take 72 hours to disperse. I could add bleach to the pool during this time so the algae doesn’t get worse. If I did this, how much bleach could I add each day to keep the algae from getting worse while I wait on the CYA to increase? Could I speed this along by buying the expensive liquid conditioner they sell at Leslie’s so the CYA will take effect faster? I’m trying to make sure I understand what would be the fastest and easiest way to increase my CYA and chlorine so this pool doesn’t turn into a swamp.
I just want to reiterate that doing this blindly is not recommended. You really need good test results from a good test kit. All these discussions is still limping along on a crutch until the test kit shows up.
You do need to worry about overchlorinating the pool. You need to do water testing before you blindly add that much dichlor to the pool. There are too many variables and we don't know the specifics of your pool well enough to just dump in chemicals. Proper testing is key to not harming your pool, but getting the algae cleared up. That's not how TFP works.
You can test and then add chlorine, if needed, as many times a day as practical.
This is the preferred method, to add powdered stabilizer. We do this via the sock method. We need to start slow with the CYA since it is likely not zero. Remember you already added some dichlor. So go with 32oz (2lbs) of powdered stabilizer in a sock. Yes, regular kind you wear on your foot. This should add 15ppm in your 15k gallon pool. Hang this from something (broom handle/pool pole) in front of a return. This will take less than 72 hours to get in the water. If you go by it every 30 minutes and give the sock a massage like a stress ball, it will dissolve faster. The liquid CYA is just overprices stuff and will not take effect any faster.
Get some bleach. The cheapest you can find that is plain, unscented, NOT splashless, and not the new HE with polymers. Higher percentage is fine also if the price and date code are good. Make sure the strength is listed on the bottle. IF not, it isn't strong enough to buy.
If you had a test kit, we could easily figure out how much bleach to add. Have you been using PoolMath? You can up to 4ppm worth now (half bottle of chlorine) while you are waiting for the CYA to dissolve. You can test and add as often as you want. Once the CYA is gone from the sock, then we can assume the CYA is in the water doing its job even if less than 72 hours later. It may just take some time to show up on the test. We can then increase the FC level further for later doses. This will definitely keep your water from getting worse.
I just want to reiterate that doing this blindly is not recommended. You really need good test results from a good test kit. All the above discussions is still limping along on a crutch until the test kit shows up.
You do need to worry about overchlorinating the pool. You need to do water testing before you blindly add that much dichlor to the pool. There are too many variables and we don't know the specifics of your pool well enough to just dump in chemicals. Proper testing is key to not harming your pool, but getting the algae cleared up. That's not how TFP works.
You can test and then add chlorine, if needed, as many times a day as practical.
This is the preferred method, to add powdered stabilizer. We do this via the sock method. We need to start slow with the CYA since it is likely not zero. Remember you already added some dichlor. So go with 32oz (2lbs) of powdered stabilizer in a sock. Yes, regular kind you wear on your foot. This should add 15ppm in your 15k gallon pool. Hang this from something (broom handle/pool pole) in front of a return. This will take less than 72 hours to get in the water. If you go by it every 30 minutes and give the sock a massage like a stress ball, it will dissolve faster. The liquid CYA is just overprices stuff and will not take effect any faster.
Get some bleach. The cheapest you can find that is plain, unscented, NOT splashless, and not the new HE with polymers. Higher percentage is fine also if the price and date code are good. Make sure the strength is listed on the bottle. IF not, it isn't strong enough to buy.
If you had a test kit, we could easily figure out how much bleach to add. Have you been using PoolMath? You can up to 4ppm worth now (half bottle of chlorine) while you are waiting for the CYA to dissolve. You can test and add as often as you want. Once the CYA is gone from the sock, then we can assume the CYA is in the water doing its job even if less than 72 hours later. It may just take some time to show up on the test. We can then increase the FC level further for later doses. This will definitely keep your water from getting worse.
I just want to reiterate that doing this blindly is not recommended. You really need good test results from a good test kit. All the above discussions is still limping along on a crutch until the test kit shows up.
Thanks for the advice. Last night before I read this forum, I added a pound of the Diclor, and this morning, the water is a lot clearer and we can see the bottom and sides of the pool now. I added a gallon of bleach the night before and it didn't have much effect. I was just putting these chemicals in to keep the algae from potentially getting worse so I'm surprised to see that it is clearing up some. I haven't gone to the pool store to test the water but the test strips show no cya and low chlorine still. I wish I could find a test kit so I wouldn't have to do this blindly but I am not willing to wait a whole week to start working on it. Im going to have to rely on the pool company's numbers and go there twice a day until the test arrives. If I proceed with the Diclor option since I already have some, could adding 2 pounds of it once or twice a day harm my fiberglass pool in any way? Would adding the CYA separately and adding bleach while it is distributing into the pool for 72 hours be safer? I'm sorry for all of these questions but I'm just trying to figure out what to do about this and I don't trust the pool company's advice since they often recommend chemicals that aren't needed to make money.
Don’t be sorry for asking questions. That’s how we learn. I think I answered these questions already though. I wouldn’t add multiple pounds of dichlor a day without testing in between. It won’t take 72 hours for the CYA to dissolve if you do it as I described above.
Your last sentence is one of the main reasons to get your own kit and not rely on the pool store. Last night/ this morning I sent you a PM. Look for it in your forum inbox.
Your last sentence is one of the main reasons to get your own kit and not rely on the pool store. Last night/ this morning I sent you a PM. Look for it in your forum inbox.
I bought some stabilizer today and have decided to use liquid chlorine instead of dichlor since they had 10% chlorine on sale for only $2/gallons in my local store. I plan on backwashing tomorrow and adding the stabilizer. I have a 3 inch crack under my return that was temporarily repaired with butyl tape and epoxy so I’m a bit hesitant to have the CYA sitting right there next to it in that sock for 3 days since it is an acid product. Could I put it in a sock or in pantyhose and place it in the skimmer instead? A did another water test today at the pool store that uses a Taylor test and my CYA was still at 0 and so was my chlorine so I’m eager to get this CYA into the pool so I can start slamming to get rid of the algae. Since I’m concerned that the algae could get worse while I’m waiting 72 hours on the CYA to increase, can I add chlorine at night and if so, is there a limit to how much I could add?
If you hang it off the edge of the pool using a broom handle you should be right. You can squeeze the sock every now and again to quicken the process.
If you put it in the skimmer you'll be stuck if you need to backwash within the week as you'll end up flushing it away.
It can be difficult without the appropriate test kit with reliable test results, on hand, to monitor the chlorine level so Im assuming that your going to organize that.
If you put it in the skimmer you'll be stuck if you need to backwash within the week as you'll end up flushing it away.
It can be difficult without the appropriate test kit with reliable test results, on hand, to monitor the chlorine level so Im assuming that your going to organize that.
Great choice to handle them separate and that is a great price for the chlorine. Great find!
If you hang it in front of the return and squeeze it every once a while, it will be gone within a couple of hours, not 72 hours! I keep trying to tell you this.
As an example, today, I put 16 oz in a sock, hanging in front of my return and it was gone from the sock within an hour. I massaged it for 10 seconds every 10 to 15 minutes.
You don’t want it resting on side walls but with the pump running it really won’t harm your walls. It is an acid but it is not a strong acid at a pH of 4. Remember orange juice (pH of ~3.5) has citric acid & others and vinegar is acetic acid (pH of ~2.5). Both of which we can drink.
If you hang it in front of the return and squeeze it every once a while, it will be gone within a couple of hours, not 72 hours! I keep trying to tell you this.
As an example, today, I put 16 oz in a sock, hanging in front of my return and it was gone from the sock within an hour. I massaged it for 10 seconds every 10 to 15 minutes.
You don’t want it resting on side walls but with the pump running it really won’t harm your walls. It is an acid but it is not a strong acid at a pH of 4. Remember orange juice (pH of ~3.5) has citric acid & others and vinegar is acetic acid (pH of ~2.5). Both of which we can drink.