Pool in the Heartland Coming Soon

[Sillypoolmom]

Well, we are building a pool. After years of popping up and taking down Intex pools, we figured this pool obsession isn’t going away. The bids are coming in. Slowly!

We live on 10 acres and have plenty of room to do just about anything we want. Our back yard area is a complete blank slate. We go back and forth between nice pool and backyard destination. We feel lost and torn.

Because we have lots of years swimming at our own house, we know this is going to be something we use and love. We are wanting to extend our swimming capabilities (i.e. heater and more off season swimming, bigger to accommodate us and guests easier, and more features as in diving and playing and things that aren’t possible with a pop up pool). And, we have waited to landscape the backyard knowing we have been tossing around the idea of getting an in ground pool.

The PB we are leaning towards has done pools for several people we know and who love their pool. We are looking at a 50 foot long pool anywhere from 17-25 foot wide (rough estimate). We are looking at 42 feet long and 17-25 feet wide as it is a blob shape. It will have a tanning shelf. It will have an 8 foot tall waterfall that runs about 24 feet that will also serve as a diving platform. It will have about 20 feet of rock waterfalls. That is basically the basics. There will be a little bit more but that will get us started as a jumping off point if we go with them. We talked equipment some. He uses Jandy. He thinks it will have 5 pumps and so on. I will get more specific if we choose them.

There are a couple of things that I am unsure of. They do not do salt water as he says long term it doesn’t work well with the rocks for the water fall. He wants to do the trichlor pucks. I know all about the CYA and why it is generally not recommended. We had our mind set on Salt Water as that is how we run the Intex. I am so torn. Second, because of the high diving platform we have to do a 12 foot deep pool. I didn’t want a pool that deep. I was thinking 8 foot. I get why. I can do the physics of jumping from 6-7 feet in the air. I am really thinking maybe we should lower it so I can go back to 8 feet. Thoughts on that? My last big hesitation is just going so grand on the water fall. Will we regret this? We absolutely want something a little spicier than a flat pool. But I am concerned that this could be biting off quite a bit . . . not so much initial cost but expense to run and time to maintain.

We LOVE his ideas. He is also very willing to forego the waterfalls and go more simple. He isn’t pushing us either way. We obviously called him because we are familiar with his work and love the finished product.

I would appreciate your help, thoughts, and input on our initial three hesitations: no salt water, 12 foot deep pool, and going so big. Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like quite a project.

I would not own a pool without my SWCG. The salt level in a SWCG pool is not significant. The issue the PB notes is because people with SWCG had been told 'maintenance free'. Wrong. Thus their pH would rise very high and that is disastrous for stone/natural materials.

That big of a waterfall will take lots of pumps. I suppose you will run it only occasionally. Though you will need to run it or have some method to keep the water in that system chlorinated each day. You would not want to use it continuously, it will drive your pH sky high.

What is your fill water like? Any iron issues, high TA or calcium?

Lots to think about

Take care.

- - - Updated - - -

With that big of a pool you would most likely have to use a commercial size SWCG if you go that way.

Any idea on the number of gallons?

 

[kellyfair]

Ooooh! Go big or go home! Let’s make something awesome with all those acres! You could rent it out for weddings and stuff... break even in a few years!

But yeah, the SWG would have to be part of it for me.

 

[kimkats]

A grotto!!! You need a grotto!! It can serve as a jumping place, waterfall, and cool hang out area! It does not have to be that high in the air as quite a bit of it will be "inside" the pool.

pool grotto - Google Search

That would put your pool over the top!!!

Kim

 

[Sillypoolmom]

What is your fill water like? Any iron issues, high TA or calcium?

Any idea on the number of gallons?

We have very hard water. I am assuming that is going to make my Calcium high. It tests anywhere from 13-20 hardness on any given day. We test it because we have a water softener for our home. Everyone with a pool in our area battles the hard water. So far all the builders ramble off several chemicals they would put in the pool to combat the hardness. I cringe each time.

No iron issues that I have seen.

As as far as TA . . . Each summer when we pop up our pool, I battle it for a while to get it down. It is always so high that it is off the charts of the test kit. I just know to buy several gallons of acid to start each year. I work and work keeping the pH down and lowering the TA along the way. By the end of the summer, I have it under control and the pH is much easier to keep in line. But, we always take the pool down. We have never kept one open past mid-September.

As as far as gallons, I wouldn’t know for sure until we figure out exactly the size, shape, swim outs, shelf’s, etc. On another quote that was a little smaller I was estimating that it would be 80k. This pool would be bigger. So far, all PB go by linear feet. They never figure gallons. And not one yet has an idea of gallons. It is like it doesn’t matter. I have a feeling they build pools and have figured out by trial and error how to size pumps based on pool size and not gallons, but I am really not sure. ???

This is so difficult because each pool builder has their way and ideas. Most of them assume we will hire someone to manage our water. I am shocked and so discouraged. Why would I spend this kind of money and not understand it? Is this really how the masses approach their pool?

At at the end of the day, we want a fun pool with lots of fun interactive features that looks beautiful and creates lots of laughter and family fun. We thought this would be easier.

 

[Sillypoolmom]

I forgot to address the fountains. Yes, you have to run the fountains a small amount each day to get the chlorine through it. In our mind, we would run the fountain when we swim and to maintain cleanliness. It would not run all the time. In the winter, we have to drain them and thus not have water falls because it freezes here regularly. Otherwise, we have to run them continuously while the temperature is low . . . even if it is day over day. We think draining makes more sense. We can heat the pool and swim on nice days if we wanted but not have fountains.

 

[LeighHop]

I’d also vote for toning down the height of the waterfall. I love Kim’s grotto suggestion. The non jumpers will enjoy it as well. Sounds like a great project and can’t wait to see what you do.

 

[mknauss]

With high calcium and this size pool, I would suggest investigating having a water softener integrated into your pool water supply. Not to initially fill the pool, but to use as make up water from evaporation, splash out, etc.

 

[Sillypoolmom]

We are for sure going with this pool builder . . . although we haven’t signed the contract yet. I couldn’t get past the deep pool. So, my husband decided it was the right thing to shallow it up. Our teenage boy is devastated that I took away his high dive. We are still planning waterfalls but making it a tad smaller . . . lowering them and shortening them up. And no longer diving from them.

This is helps with my concern about going too big. I’m still not sold yet. I want to make sure my pool is fun and enjoyable for years. I don’t want to feel trapped by how expensive it is to run and operate. I mean we can afford it today, but we want to afford it for years to come. I hope that makes sense.

I am coming around on loosing the salt water. Both of our neighbors use the pucks. We really enjoy their pools. I see the argument both ways. So many people we know got sick and tired of replacing parts of their saltwater system. I am assuming they feel like they are constantly replacing cells. ??? Not sure. They switched to chlorine. Out of everyone we know with a pool only one actually takes care of it. The rest have a pool service. It blows our mind. Our pool builder is leery about me saying I will manage our pool. They service just about all of the pools they put in. That probably explains why they like the pucks and not salt. I am shocked.

We we are getting closer and closer. I am ready. We are looking at a mid to late June dig. Not much longer and lots to iron out beforehand. I will snap a photo of the back yard as it sits now. It will hope not look like the same place once we are done. I will also hopefully have more specific details to share like we are adding a bathroom to the house, patios, landscaping, and not to mention the pool details. I felt so lost a week ago. I feel like addressing my concerns has made me feel better. My sweet husband and understanding PB have been super!

 

[kimkats]

I look forward to seeing what you are working with. Good job thinking long term and short term. Your son will enjoy anything you do. You can always ask him if HE is willing to put up the money for the deep end and such LOL That might stop the grumbling.

Kim

 

[Sillypoolmom]

So . . . Life happens and I didn’t get back to update. I’m not sure it is worth continuing to update. But so much has happened. After much back and forth between my husband and I and our PB, we settled on waterfalls with a 10 foot deep end. We can still jump from the rocks just not dive. We added a slide also which should be fun. We settled on the shape, location, sunshelf, bubblers, etc.

We are 3 months into this and oh dear! This is a painfully slow process!!!!! I have videoed the entire build in time lapse which in stark contrast is super fast. Building a pool isn’t for the faint of heart! I am sure when I am swimming in the pool it will feel worth it. Today . . . not so much. I have no regrets other than not realizing the time it would take.

 

[riley00dog]

Can you post the time lapse? A 10 foot deep end sounds amazing. Definitely not for the faint hearted this pool building business!

 

[kimkats]

We would love to see the updates and where your build is now. We can at least be a good place for you to vent or for us to cheer as things go right!

Kim

 

[Sillypoolmom]

I will see what I can do to share the time lapse. They are HUGE files. It will take me a bit to figure out how I want to put them all together. So far, it is like almost an hour long. Ain't nobody got time for dat!!

Here is a look at the before.


You can see our janky backyard that I have on purpose kept untouched. The pool outline is drawn. We moved it back 6 feet away from the house. Our PB insisted we move it away from the house. We insisted it be close. We were wrong. We moved it 6 feet back. Probably should have gone a couple of more feet. But we are happy anyway.

 

[Sillypoolmom]

I thought I would also update you on some other decisions we have made. Our PB does not do salt. I was bummed. So, when we popped our pool up again this past summer, we did so using pucks. No SWG. And guess what? I didn't put acid in the pool one time! I was constantly adding acid. So, coupled with the water falls that we are doing, we chose to forgo the SWG. We are asking them to save space in the equipment if we ever change our minds. But, as I have mentioned before, we know more and more people removing the SWG from their pools in our area. It was tough. But we made the decision and will move forward. I talked to my husband about a water softener. Do you put one of these in at the pool equipment? We have one on our house, but it is not for outside water. Anyone know? I would be open to doing that so at least our refill water will be better balanced.

 

[kimkats]

Just know those tablets add something to the water. Some, most, add CYA aka stabilizer. You do need some CYA but after a while it will build up and the only way to remove it is to drain and replace some of the water. The ones that don't add CYA add calcium. It is the same story, must remove and add water to lower it.

If you don't use a SWG then you will need to find a way to chlorine. You can be a jug lugger like me. I pick up 10 gals of chlorine (11%) every 12 days. I add 1/3 a jug each day. Some people have something called stenner pumps. There are many threads about them and many people who can help you with it if you decide to go that way.

Water softner-I am going to put in a call that has plumbed in his water softener for refills------------Dirk! OH Dirk!!! Pagin Dirk!!! Okay that should do it!

Kim

 

[Dirk]

[Puff of smoke] And he appears!

I have an auto-filler for my pool. I just replumbed it and connected it to my water softener. I didn't buy a dedicated softener just for the pool, I just connected it to the one I have for the interior of the house.

If you don't have an auto-filler, you can replumb your manual fill line to the softener. And if you don't have one of those either, you can just fill your pool from a hose connected to a hose bib that is plumbed to your soft water plumbing.

So before I describe all of those, let me know what setup you've got to work with.

By replacing the evaporated water from your pool with water from your softener, you can drastically reduce the CH-rise, if not eliminate it all together. I've managed to eliminate it in my pool.

Sorry to hear the SWG didn't work out for you. Mine seems to increase acid demand too, and my pool is plaster so it had an appetite for acid even before I turned on the SWG. I don't like to dose acid ever, let alone every day, so I kept my SWG and added an automated acid dosing machine. With both working, I haven't added chemicals to my pool all summer. Haven't bought or lugged chlorine, either. I test the water regularly, and it hasn't been out of near-perfect balance the whole time. I've managed to take the TFP principles, and add a few gizmos, and now truly have a TFP pool, and for most of the time an MFP (maintenance free pool)!! It is possible...

To be fair, I have to go back to manual dosing in the winter (when it is not needed much) and someday I'll have to exchange pool water to rid myself of the salt that builds up over time. But that would happen anyway, without an SWG. And I have about a day of annual maintenance to do (filter, SWG cleaning, etc). I have to clean out the skimmer and pump baskets once in a while. That's about it...

 

[Sillypoolmom]

We have done no plumbing other than the rough in. So, can I assume we still have options? Or would an auto filler needed to be plumbed ahead of time?

We do have a water softener for our home. It lives in a water closet in our garage. So, it wouldn't be the end of the world to run a water line for the pool. I am sorry to sound ignorant, but does that need to go to the equipment area or directly to the pool. I'm sure my pool builder knows, but at this point, I would rather know for myself than take their word for it.

As far as salt water goes, I read such mixed reviews about acid dosing equipment. But your set up is what I would like. Set it, test it weekly, and walk away. I know from experience the never ending acid dispensing in the summer . . . and that was a small Intex pool. I cannot imagine running waterfalls and what that will do to the PH. What is it like to put acid in whatever gizmo is dispensing it? I probably should revisit this topic again one more time before we make a final decision. I feel like I will be lugging chlorine tablets or acid either way. So, it seems like a wash as long as I keep the water balanced either way.

I am aware of CYA build up. I will monitor it just like all my numbers.

I am also going to include an over view of our build.


We are already going to be running new water lines to the bathroom. So in my mind, we can run a water line from the softener at the same time.

 

[Sillypoolmom]

I am going to catch you up on some photos of the build. In it's current state today as I am typing, it has gunite, all tile installed, and the main water fall is 95% complete. So, these are from a few weeks back. I will get them all uploaded in order hopefully in the next day or two between things.



The digging begins

Pool is dug! I remember how excited I was standing on the edge of my soon to be pool!! It was a great day!

View attachment 87293
We are standing in the deep end. We felt like so much was happening!


Ready for gunite!


This was an exciting day for us. The pool finally came alive. It was so amazing.

Pause. Pause. Pause some more. Nothing. Nada. No work was done.

 

[Dirk]

Me in blue.

We have done no plumbing other than the rough in. So, can I assume we still have options? Or would an auto filler needed to be plumbed ahead of time?

There are different types of auto fillers. The one I know and like is a PoolMiser. What I like about it is that it is both an auto-fill system and an overflow system in one. And both levels are adjustable, so basically your pool water level never gets too high or too low. The other thing I like is that it connects to your pool through an equalizer tube. The exit of the equalizer tube is about 2' below the surface. Which means wave action (kids splashing) does not affect the performance of either system. It also means the tank that holds the two systems can be right next to your skimmer or coping, or 30' away next to your pad! The bad news is, that equalizer tube ideally would have been placed before the gunite. It can be added, but your PB is not going to be happy about it. He'll likely tell you that auto fillers are bad/dangerous, and try to talk you out of one. The pros and cons of auto fillers are discussed at length here. I'll try to dig up a thread in which I discuss it. Make up your own mind. But if you decide to add one, and one that requires an equalizer tube, the sooner you do, the easier it'll be (as the gunite continues to cure). Your PB might out and out refuse to penetrate the gunite at this point. I can't speak to that. I can say this: whatever cons there are to auto fillers can be 100% negated by turning them off. That's it. You can turn it on for the worst of summer evaporation, and turn it back off again for the rest of the year, or forever if you don't like them. So having the system installed is not going to cause your pool any harm. You have to option to use it or not. Not having one installed at this point means you'll never be able to.

We do have a water softener for our home. It lives in a water closet in our garage. So, it wouldn't be the end of the world to run a water line for the pool. I am sorry to sound ignorant, but does that need to go to the equipment area or directly to the pool. I'm sure my pool builder knows, but at this point, I would rather know for myself than take their word for it.

The line can start in your new bathroom, and be plumbed to the pad at that time, or now. It should go to the pad. It needs to first run into a back flow preventer and then on to wherever you located the autofill system, which as I said, can be near the pool, or near the pad. Mine is by my skimmer. It's nice to be able to check on both at the same time. You can find more than you'll ever want to know about how I did it here.

As far as salt water goes, I read such mixed reviews about acid dosing equipment. But your set up is what I would like. Set it, test it weekly, and walk away. I know from experience the never ending acid dispensing in the summer . . . and that was a small Intex pool. I cannot imagine running waterfalls and what that will do to the PH.

I post extensively about my acid dosing adventure here. Short version: it's awesome! Wouldn't do another pool without one (same for auto fill).

What is it like to put acid in whatever gizmo is dispensing it?

See link above. I go into much detail about adding acid to the gizmo.

I probably should revisit this topic again one more time before we make a final decision.

The acid dosing machines can be added after the build, no problem. I did mine myself. But they all have one thing in common: the tank. Mine is smallish, about 14" diameter. Other systems can use bigger tanks. So if you want it near or on your pad, have them pour you some extra pad. Muriatic acid fumes will attack any nearby metal, such as just about everything on your pad. So your dosing machine needs to be leak proof. But it also has to allow air in, and acid fumes out? Huh? Also discussed in my thread. Point was: leave some room on your pad for one, or just a short ways away.

I feel like I will be lugging chlorine tablets or acid either way. So, it seems like a wash as long as I keep the water balanced either way.

Not so. I bought a few gallons of acid which have lasted all spring, summer and fall, still have much left over. That's all I lugged. I haven't purchased or lugged anything for chlorine since well before spring. And won't have to again for another couple months. Between my SWG and IntellipH, dosing and lugging are at a bare minimum. And as I mention often, I've added neither to my pool directly for months.

I am aware of CYA build up. I will monitor it just like all my numbers.

Try that for a while. I predict you won't like the eventual consequences. Using tabs is not a sustainable method of sanitizing a pool. You'll be adding more and more chlorine as you progress, and eventually have to drain most of your pool and refill it. Lather, rinse, repeat. Doable, for sure, but not by me. SWG and Iph.

I am also going to include an over view of our build.

We are already going to be running new water lines to the bathroom. So in my mind, we can run a water line from the softener at the same time.

Water in the bathroom will be soft water, you can tap off the cold water line there, it doesn't need to be a dedicated line back to the softener. It certainly can be if you like, or if you're concerned about maintaining pressure, etc. I just crawled into the attic and found the closest 3/4" soft water line, and tapped into that. EZPZ.

If you can make it through my softener thread (which also has lots of new plaster/newbie info you might find helpful), you'll see that I went a step further and plumbed my pool to both hard and soft water, user selectable, even mixable. I did so for two reasons: If rains or splash out reduce my CH too low, I can just switch over to hard water for a while. And two: I like to shut off my main valve to the inside of the house when I leave for more than a day (had a bad flood once). By doing so, I shut down soft water production. Which means the pool could evaporate too low. I tapped my hard water feed to the pool off the irrigation system (pre-main-shut-off-valve), so that when I shut down the house my pool can still auto fill while I'm gone.