16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

[setsailsoon]

Sad to hear family stuff has been rough but glad things are moving again. That is a very pretty lot!!!

Thanks Kim, family issues were not devastating or anything just took time and a couple trips to Dallas. Also the ranch house close by the lot didn't pan out since there was no way to get reasonable internet that I still need for my consulting work so we're in this condo. Nice place but 70% of the house stuff is now in storage.

Yes, we're really thrilled about the way the lot turned out. Neighbors are amazed also that this view was totally obscured by the forest of invasive trees and shrubs. And best of all finally meeting with the pool design company Monday!

Chris

 

[kimkats]

but 70% of the house stuff is now in storage.

OUCH! Bet you keep looking for this or that only to realize it is in storage Here is hoping the builds will go fast!

 

[setsailsoon]

Yep, already happening. We actually ended up with a complex storage. Best price for storage was in this big climate controlled storage warehouse. They put it in wooden vaults that are stacked in there with a hundred or so of others so not easy to get to. For stuff that we might need access to we have 3 climate controlled storage units almost full. We put stuff here that we were pretty sure we'd need. Sure enough first thing we needed was in a vault... cheaper to buy another than open a vault! Oh well...

 

[Newdude]

Best price for storage was in this big climate controlled storage warehouse. They put it in wooden vaults that are stacked in there with a hundred or so of others so not easy to get to

Be careful not to open the Ark of the Covenant when the time comes. If you do by accident, DO NOT LOOK at it !!

 

[mguzzy]

Be careful not to open the Ark of the Covenant when the time comes. If you do by accident, DO NOT LOOK at it !!

Zat what your garage looks like? I try not to look at mine until it shows up on an episode of Hoarders.

 

[Katodude]

Wow, sorry I am late to this thread. Just a few points.

So I guess you are staying in S. Florida based on what I have seen. Are you going to have NG run to the house or bury a propane tank? There are other ways to do mosquito control other than a screen enclosure. We can talk about those as well.

You also mentioned sub zero for appliances. Do whatever you want on appliances, but I would stay away from a built in fridge. You basically get to pay $10K for a $2K fridge. Maybe a rounding error in the build price, but when it breaks it will make you angry.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I never buy anything pricey without checking out Consumer Reports.

 

[Robtown]

Beautiful lot, I’ll be watching this thread too. Whenever I think about an infinity build, I remember this build…

New build in South Texas

It’s taken me awhile to start putting this together. We selected our PB and signed a contract at the end of July 2013. My wife Diane and myself started construction in South Texas on a infinity edge pool. It’s 39 feet long (does not include catch basin) and 27 feet at its widest point. The pool...

www.troublefreepool.com

Maybe some inspiration for your meeting with the designer.

 

[setsailsoon]

Wow, sorry I am late to this thread. Just a few points.

So I guess you are staying in S. Florida based on what I have seen. Are you going to have NG run to the house or bury a propane tank? There are other ways to do mosquito control other than a screen enclosure. We can talk about those as well.

You also mentioned sub zero for appliances. Do whatever you want on appliances, but I would stay away from a built in fridge. You basically get to pay $10K for a $2K fridge. Maybe a rounding error in the build price, but when it breaks it will make you angry.

I don't recall saying anything about sub-zero appliances we wrote them off long ago. We're going with Fulgor or Thermador gas stove top and ovens and GE fridge - non built in! Trendy built in fridge runs $16- 20 K for a smaller fridge!. Wow! I can't believe so many get sucked in on that. Or maybe there's a lot of people with money to burn, if so good for them! Good news is that appliances and window delivery times have dropped from low orbit to high altitude recently.

I'm open to any new ideas on mosquitoes and critters prevention but we need the ability to go right out the large slider glass doors from the house to the patio to the pool and we live right on a lake.

Chris

 

[Katodude]

So nothing is going to be as effective as a pool cage. You pretty much have 100% protection with that.

I am not a fan of pool cages, they dont fit the look of our house but that is just a personal preference. You have had one for years, and can design it into the house so its less of an issue for you. Anyway here is what I do.

First I use two of these mosquito magnets. I have have them hooked up to an underground propane tank. Not worth doing if you are going to use individual cylinders since you have to change them out every 3 weeks and that is just too much work. Each one is supposed to clear a full acre. I have 1/2 acre and I use two. We are an overkill kind of family. That takes care of about 95% of the mosquitos in our yard.

Mosquito Magnet® Patriot Plus Mosquito Trap

With the Mosquito Magnet® Patriot Plus, you can establish a defense zone for your home or business that drastically cuts back on the breeding population of biting insects.

www.mosquitomagnet.com

I supplement with with spraying every few weeks. I rotate between Bifin,Permetherin, and Czymic. When I spray the Cyzmic I also add a IGR. That gets me to about 98-99% mosquito control. There are always one or two that manage to survive and get my wife. I use a backpack sprayer to spray, but if I were building new I would add an automated spray system. You can DIY one for about $2K. That would make life even easier.

Anyway thats my method, and it works well. Also helps with ant control.

Just another option.

 

[setsailsoon]

So nothing is going to be as effective as a pool cage. You pretty much have 100% protection with that.

I am not a fan of pool cages, they dont fit the look of our house but that is just a personal preference. You have had one for years, and can design it into the house so its less of an issue for you. Anyway here is what I do.

First I use two of these mosquito magnets. I have have them hooked up to an underground propane tank. Not worth doing if you are going to use individual cylinders since you have to change them out every 3 weeks and that is just too much work. Each one is supposed to clear a full acre. I have 1/2 acre and I use two. We are an overkill kind of family. That takes care of about 95% of the mosquitos in our yard.

Mosquito Magnet® Patriot Plus Mosquito Trap

With the Mosquito Magnet® Patriot Plus, you can establish a defense zone for your home or business that drastically cuts back on the breeding population of biting insects.

www.mosquitomagnet.com

I supplement with with spraying every few weeks. I rotate between Bifin,Permetherin, and Czymic. When I spray the Cyzmic I also add a IGR. That gets me to about 98-99% mosquito control. There are always one or two that manage to survive and get my wife. I use a backpack sprayer to spray, but if I were building new I would add an automated spray system. You can DIY one for about $2K. That would make life even easier.

Anyway thats my method, and it works well. Also helps with ant control.

Just another option.

I really like the creativity. Very cool approach, not sure if it'll work for us but I do like it. Semi-related question - how much do you pay for propane. We'll need a propane standby generator so I will have propane. I've heard propane is pretty high in Florida.

Chris

 

[Katodude]

So for propane, first make sure you own your tank, dont rent. Then you can always shop around for the cheapest propane. Also buy the biggest tank you can. We have 250 gallons and I wish it was 1000 gallons. Next run a propane line around the entire property. You can run a lot of things on propane than you might now want now. ie BBQ, tiki torches, firepit, mosquito magnets.

A big tank lets you wait for sales. The prices go anywhere from $1.89 a gallon to $3.50. Lately we have been waiting for coupons and paying around $2.50. So having a big tank with a lot of capacity lets you wait for the right price and then fill for the year. Also there is about a $40 fill charge each time so minimizing the number of fills is important.

This all assumes you cannot get NG to the house which is MUCH cheaper.

 

[Newdude]

+1 on the 1000 gallon tank. You don’t *have* to fill it but you can wait most of the year until it’s not in high demand whenever the prices spike. Getting $1-$2 a gallon savings will pay for itself many times over.

 

[setsailsoon]

Kato and New,

Great info and thanks much! I saw residential propane on the EIA website at $4.15 which had me worried about our lot with no natural gas but I think this is a FERC rate or something. I agree there are a lot of "nice to haves" about propane for us including the items Kato lists plus my wife loves gas stoves etc. But the most important reason for us is the standby generator. We've been through lots of bad storms over the years and by far the worst has always been days or weeks after with no AC. So we'll always have the tank full before June 1st and I definitely agree we'll try to buy the bulk rate where possible.

Thanks for this info... very helpful!

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

15 June update:

As mentioned previously Curtis Sinclair Pool Design is booked at least 6 months out. We had fingers crossed that GIA would be everything they appeared to be on the website and sounded like when I spoke to them. So yesterday we took the 2 hr hike to South Miami. I have to say it seemed pretty shady at first. Located in this old, old, old upper floor of a white building that was now more like mold and dirt grey two story strip mall with let's say "weird" stores on the ground floor and no signs at all about a pool design office. So in we march to the smallest elevator in the world that dumped us between some kind of pet supply place and a few more shady looking places. Down the hall looked like the place and I opened the door to 3 offices with drawing boards and piles drawing rolls of pool projects underway along with stacks of permit packages. These folks were for real and very busy. It's completely a family business started by the father 20 years ago and now staffed with the next generation designers and other experts that it takes to get a pool done. We sat down with a youngish designer named Ivis. Four years in the business and already impressive with creative ideas. Our goal was to establish a concept that she could use to give us a proposal for a complete design. Started with the house floor plan, lot survey and she brought up Google Earth photos. She has a huge portfolio of pools to pull up right on the screen and show complete design packages for. I should get the proposal tomorrow. Here's what we ended up with as a concept:

• 38 x 18 with 4' at one end 6' at the other
• inside the pool spa at one end rectangular ~6x10
• sun deck at the same end beside the spa
• knife edge around 3 sides
• infinity edge on the long edge closest to the lake
• behind the infinity edge is a basin ~18" drop from the edge. This works incredibly well with the existing grading on the pad

We get a full design package and permitting support which includes a complete structural designed with stamped design drawings plus the electrical, plumbing, equipment, controls etc. Price will be included in the proposal. Sounds like a simple pool our size would be about $1000 but the spa, knife edge, infinity edge and basin are all adders that run the design cost up to about $3000. I'd like to get at least one more competitive quote but I don't really know where I can go for that. Pooleng.com doesn't do Florida. Any ideas?

I'll post concept sketches that I should get with the proposal.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

29 June 2021 Update:

Folks,

Getting a little frustrated... still no proposal from GIA! Two weeks now and I know the issue is they are loaded with work plus big backlog. So I started looking for yet another designer. Found DIY Pool Designs. An online design company that's doing 40 pools right now across the nation and done a lot in Florida over the past 3 years. They work completely online. I have no issue with that since I've been managing mult-million dollar projects online in the chemical industry for several years. It really kicked up during COVID last year and is continuing.

My wife and I spent about 30 min on the phone with them yesterday and it went very well. They said the right words and seemed very knowledgeable. I probed what I thought would be the the main issues for this job and their responses were great. Their price is reasonable even when I add in a contingency for additional design reviews. I would like to know if anybody here has had any experience with them good or bad.

Chris

 

[kimkats]

Chris, I did a search and found this old thread: New Pool Build Phoenix Arizona - DIY or BYOP or Other?

Not sure if it will help due to the age.

 

[setsailsoon]

Chris, I did a search and found this old thread: New Pool Build Phoenix Arizona - DIY or BYOP or Other?

Not sure if it will help due to the age.

Kim,

Thanks so much for digging this up. The BYOP concept was very similar. I've gotten current estimates from three design companies. DIY is probably a completely different company but the concept is similar and it's nice to know this process worked for so many others.
Here's what I've found so far on this project:

• A very simple pool starts at $1000 but add spa, knife edges, infinity edges plus screen enclosure seems to run the cost up to $2000-$3200.
• I think DIY is the one I'll be going with but I want to confirm some of their deliverables. They did follow up with me on one of my initial questions about who is the PE that will stamp the drawings. Turns out it's a very well-known engineering company in Bradenton FL.
• All 3 companies that I contacted will provide 3D renderings of the complete design before ordering construction and permit drawings. This is very helpful for my wife since she is pretty visual and really needs to see this to OK the aesthetics. (I'm sure we'll need a lot of input from here on that part.)
• The deliverables include all structural design calcs and specifications as well as mechanical, plumbing and electrical requirements to satisfy my county building permit. They guarantee building permit approval and will redo anything required to gain approval. They also provide:
  • Custom Design
  • 3D rendering and video walkthrough
  • Standard Engineering
  • Permit Ready Construction Plans
  • Video Guides for each phase of construction
  • Checklists (for you and subs) for each phase of construction
  • Personal Coaching and Support from Mike Stephenson (owner, pool builder and construction expert)
  • Wholesale Pool Equipment from Hayward
• Looks like my design cost with DIY will be $2000 to $2500 including all my adders and a couple of changes that I know from experience on the house will be inevitable to keep a happy wife.

More to come...

Chris

 

[kimkats]

They guarantee building permit approval and will redo anything required to gain approval.

That is gold right there!!

I am also very visual so am glad you are able to get this for your wife to help her really see it!

 

[setsailsoon]

08 July 21 Update

Folks,

We've made a lot of progress. Below are close to final floor plan and elevations of the house plus first pass at site plan. Site plan is to verify setbacks only at this point. We've picked our pool designer to be DIY Pools..com. So far great to work with and should have concept pool drawings next week. It will be about 18x30 with internal spa and 3 knife edges plus infinity edge at rear. There's a lake about 50' behind the lot that's ~10'. There are a couple items that are being incorporated for the pool based on my experience with the previous pool and comments from here:

• Definitely a salt pool most likely w Circupool RJ 60
• Intellicenter automation - outside possibility I'll make room for a hobby automation using Arduino or similar for playing around
• Pentair pump, heaters, cartridge filter
• Robot Pentair Warrior SE or equivalent
• 3" conduit under pavers and through slab to outdoor kitchen in cabinet to run robot power cord underground and easily replaceable. Receptacle in cabinet controlled by aux relay on automation.
• Screen enclosure with "portrait window" centered to view lake
• Pebble tech or similar plaster w sea creature mosaic inlays
• Lights - still deciding what kind
• Unions in plumbing for access of anything that needs to be removed for maintenance
• Solar heater by Tryon (same as I had before) controlled by Intellicenter
• "Bad Rear" brand fans in patio
• Drop down TV to swivel for best view from pool.
• Well-stocked bar and portable ice machine at bar.

More colors and specifics of tiles later. Am I missing anything?

Chris