Help with Stubborn Cloudy Green

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To the thread in general,

I have added CYA to get the level legitimately up to 40. I have been adding chlorine at a rate consistent with previous days, even though I'm out of R-0871 for probably a couple more days. Water is significantly better, though still vaguely green. By Wednesday I expect to see the bottom of the end, as every day now I can see my brush a foot or so deeper than the last. Brushing obsessively and adding a cup of DE with each backwash, (usually once daily).

I think I'll have my first 5 micron duda bag today or tomorrow. I have ordered another 5 micron bag and elbow, both should be here by Wednesday. My hope is to implement the two duda bags Wednesday evening. I will run the polaris on the middle return as usual, while attaching the duda bags to the other two returns and closing off the returns by the stairs. The duda bags will act similar to me shutting them off at the ball valves, so pressure should be pretty normal for when I'm running the polaris.

I'll certainly be posting pics and more details by Wednesday evening. It will be interesting to see how quickly junk collects in these things!
 
Robert, since the opening of the duda bags is significantly larger than the pvc elbow, do you do anything special to prevent backflow out of the bag, or do you just fit the bag on there as best you can and crank down on the hose clamp, knowing you're going to lose some water regardless?
 
Dudas are up and running! Got my bags over the lunch break and put them on first and third returns, and the polaris running off the middle return, with the stair returns closed off. I also closed the main drain a bit to keep my PSI at roughly 1.5 above clean running pressure, so overall it is up to about 19 from 17.5.

View attachment 77500

Even leaving the main drain all the way open wouldn't spike the PSI more 2-3, so I don't think the initial bump will be enough for anyone to worry much about. We'll see how quickly the things fill up!
 
Yep. Have been for 3+ weeks now. CYA has been a bit all over the place. Very low to start, then around 40 for a week or two, then down to <30 after some significant backwashing and vacuuming on waste, but it seems stable at 40 now. Haven't been able to measure FC for several days due to lack of R-0871, which should come in tomorrow, but I've been adding the same rough amount of bleach I was before the reagent ran out, which was roughly 3 qts daily (2 at lunch and 1 around dusk).
 
All good, funandsun. I will tell you that I have not seen a significant rise in PSI since putting the bags on around 1pm CST, maybe 1 PSI at most. I also went ahead and disconnected the Polaris as I seem to be having an issue with my backup valve that just popped up. After disconnecting that, I closed off the middle return, so now two returns are open, both with filter bags. I'll check pressure again after a bit to see if there's been any more precipitous rise.
 
madyogi said:
All good, funandsun. I will tell you that I have not seen a significant rise in PSI since putting the bags on around 1pm CST, maybe 1 PSI at most. I also went ahead and disconnected the Polaris as I seem to be having an issue with my backup valve that just popped up. After disconnecting that, I closed off the middle return, so now two returns are open, both with filter bags. I'll check pressure again after a bit to see if there's been any more precipitous rise.
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That's good to know, thanks.
 
Looks great, funandsun!

I too remain on SLAM, and my PSI went up maybe 1 unit overnight, so I'm riding at about 20.5, up from a clean running pressure of 17.5, so the rising, but slowly. I also gave the elbows a spin, and bled some air out of them, so they are underwater now, and hopefully aerating a bit less. I'll be doing a full battery of tests at lunch, once my R-0871 comes in, though I imagine with the SLAM on, pH won't be accurate.
 
Here's a side-by-side comparison after 24 hours with duda bags in place.

PoolComparison.jpg

It's not totally scientific because the water was moving a bit more in the right hand picture (that's the after photo, taken today), but it does show pretty significant clearing/lightening, even given the same sun at the same time of day. Even when it seems like not much is changing day to day, seeing the photos side by side like this gives me a decent amount of hope for Sunday!
 

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Okay, so all enthusiasm for the cool triple filtration aside, it's time for me to make sure I have a plan for this weekend. My son's birthday party is Sunday, and swimming is not the main attraction as we are taking the kids to a trampoline park for part of the time, but we will be returning to our place for cake and ice cream. I was hoping to offer swimming as an option for those who wanted to splash and play.

I will caveat this by saying that I have been maintaining FC between 12-20 ppm for well over two weeks now. CYA, while it has bounced around a bit, is holding steady between 30-40 on my past 2 tests, so I'll assume 40. I have also had pH nailed at about 7.4 since before the SLAM, with TA at 90. The pool is clearing more and more with each day, and with the implementation of the duda bags I can finally faintly make out the main drain at the bottom of the deep end as of this afternoon, so I don't expect visibility to be an issue even at bottom of the deep end by Sunday.

What should my main concerns be at this point, if I want to allow kids to swim Sunday, even if the pool isn't totally clear? Should I plan to reduce FC levels to below SLAM Saturday regardless of the clarity of the water, or should I just plan to keep the SLAM on? Is it advisable to swim at SLAM levels of FC? And what else, if anything, can I do in the next 72 hours to increase the chances of clearing the pool?

Thanks in advance for any advice, and thanks a TON to everybody who's helped so far!
 
madyogi said:
Okay, so all enthusiasm for the cool triple filtration aside, it's time for me to make sure I have a plan for this weekend. My son's birthday party is Sunday, and swimming is not the main attraction as we are taking the kids to a trampoline park for part of the time, but we will be returning to our place for cake and ice cream. I was hoping to offer swimming as an option for those who wanted to splash and play.

I will caveat this by saying that I have been maintaining FC between 12-20 ppm for well over two weeks now. CYA, while it has bounced around a bit, is holding steady between 30-40 on my past 2 tests, so I'll assume 40. I have also had pH nailed at about 7.4 since before the SLAM, with TA at 90. The pool is clearing more and more with each day, and with the implementation of the duda bags I can finally faintly make out the main drain at the bottom of the deep end as of this afternoon, so I don't expect visibility to be an issue even at bottom of the deep end by Sunday.

What should my main concerns be at this point, if I want to allow kids to swim Sunday, even if the pool isn't totally clear? Should I plan to reduce FC levels to below SLAM Saturday regardless of the clarity of the water, or should I just plan to keep the SLAM on? Is it advisable to swim at SLAM levels of FC? And what else, if anything, can I do in the next 72 hours to increase the chances of clearing the pool?

Thanks in advance for any advice, and thanks a TON to everybody who's helped so far!
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madyogi, is your liner blue or green?

How long have you been in SLAM?

Just quickly looked back at your original post, you were open 2 weeks prior to posting and it has been 2 weeks since that time, so a month?

Have you been in SLAM properly for a month? If so, I am curious why still green tint vs a blue cloudy.

I did not take the time to read back through 160+ posts to this thread so forgive me in advance if there are critical pieces that I have left out.

Just trying to get what your best description is right now so I personally can dig through my notes and look for any adjustments that I can offer.
 
Mad, can you take us step by step with how you are doing your CYA test, and show us pictures of what you mean when you say it is between 30 and 40?
 
Liner is blue, so clearly still a fair amount of green hanging about, but turning milky gray more and more with each day, and certainly visibility to the bottom of the deep end is a big step. That said, I took the cover off the pool April 22 and spent about 3-4 days clearing out visible debris, increasing water level, adding CYA and adjusting pH and TA. Since then I've been in SLAM mode. I started SLAMing with a CYA at 30-40, so keeping FC around 12-14 ppm, but I was simply not losing much FC at that point. Upping the SLAM to 20-22 FC increased my FC loss throughout the day, so I figured I was onto something, or at least that it was finally eating up the algae. As I said previously, CYA has been up and down, but has never been above 40, so I can't imagine it was inhibiting the effectiveness of my SLAM, unless I'm totally missing something about the chemistry. As of right now, the dot disappears right before 30, so rounding up, I would say it's at 40. Pump has been running 24/7 for the duration, and this thread chronicles the other measures taken, such as intermittent DE for the past 8 days or so, along with hairnets in the skimmer during that time, and now the duda bags. I didn't have nearly this much trouble clearing the pool last year, and I didn't do anything different in closing or opening, so it's confusing to me.
 
I can't send pics of the test right now, but I fill the tube with the spout in my kit to the 7 line, add reagent to get it up to 14, shake for 30 seconds, hold the other tube assembly with the dotted column at my waist (preferably in full sun), and squirt the water in there until the dot seems to disappear.

Between 30 and 40 simply means that at the 40 line I can see the dot, but it's basically disappeared by the time it gets to 30. I've always felt like a moron trying to read this particular test, especially at levels closer to 30-40, because I'm always thinking "The dot's kinda gone now, but maybe that's just my reflection obscuring it .. and then if I concentrate or if I move slightly I can still see it ..." It hardly seems exact.

What I can say for sure is that my CYA can't possibly be above 40 ... unless I'm completely missing something, which is always possible.

It might also be worth noting that the night before I ran out of R-0871 I passed the OCLT with flying colors at FC 20ppm, even with the green hue of the water. I am using the same test kit I bought at the beginning of last year, just with new reagent for Chlorine and CYA, so it's the same tubes. Could that be causing something to go funky?
 
Water is 70 degrees or more, I assume? Sun behind you?

Just fill to a line, glance, fill to next line, glance, and so on. The line where you can’t see the dot is your CYA.

I feel like we are missing something. Your water circulation is good?
 
madyogi said:
I can't send pics of the test right now, but I fill the tube with the spout in my kit to the 7 line, add reagent to get it up to 14, shake for 30 seconds, hold the other tube assembly with the dotted column at my waist (preferably in full sun), and squirt the water in there until the dot seems to disappear.

Between 30 and 40 simply means that at the 40 line I can see the dot, but it's basically disappeared by the time it gets to 30. I've always felt like a moron trying to read this particular test, especially at levels closer to 30-40, because I'm always thinking "The dot's kinda gone now, but maybe that's just my reflection obscuring it .. and then if I concentrate or if I move slightly I can still see it ..." It hardly seems exact.

What I can say for sure is that my CYA can't possibly be above 40 ... unless I'm completely missing something, which is always possible.
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Ok, I follow, I seem to have caught up with you just before or around the DE addition because I was then adding my Fiber Clear. So ok. I am good. Thanks.

Well takes 2 things to clear the swamp right? The SLAM and a properly working filtration system.

I have confidence that you have the testing down even if the CYA is a bit tricky so the water is ready, AND you have taken aggressive steps towards filtration including now the Duda set up.

You are 100% certain that your deep end drain is open? We already know the skimmer is open.

That is a single stage pump right? So it is just pumping as much as it can all the time which would explain your PSI @ Clean.

(sorry just typing out loud for anyone to point out a step I may be overlooking)

So could be maybe let that sand filter run even longer/higher psi? Looking at my notes, I did not backwash between 3pm 5/13 and 8am 5/17 (Today) and I had a really nice dirty backwash, much better than just about anything since the first few days of open.

I guess where I am looking at which is exactly for me where I have to look at is, my water tests are good and my FC loss is what I would expect, so any slowness is from my Filter (which I know mine is under powered for my own personal tastes).

My pool is 1/2 the size of yours and I am on day 18 of open and day 9 of SLAM.

Not sure if that helps, just trying to throw out my thinking, see what you come up with that is different that may trigger something for you or anyone else following along.
 
Yes, sun is behind when I read the test, but it's just not really obvious to me when the thing "disappears. " Perhaps I'm just looking at it too long... I agree that it feels like we're missing something. There's just no way the CYA is way underestimated. If anything, I would guess it's below 30, not above 40.

Water circulation seems fine. All returns blow out plenty of water unless restricted by a ball valve to divert pressure to the Polaris 360 or if the filter needs a backwash. The skimmer pulls water strongly. Debris ends up in skimmer overnight if not pulled out with net.
 
madyogi said:
Yes, sun is behind when I read the test, but it's just not really obvious to me when the thing "disappears. " Perhaps I'm just looking at it too long... I agree that it feels like we're missing something. There's just no way the CYA is way underestimated. If anything, I would guess it's below 30, not above 40.

Water circulation seems fine. All returns blow out plenty of water unless restricted by a ball valve to divert pressure to the Polaris 360 or if the filter needs a backwash. The skimmer pulls water strongly. Debris ends up in skimmer overnight if not pulled out with net.
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ok. I am going to dig through and find your FC losses as you have reported.

Was anything different over the winter? How sure are you that you have gotten everything off the bottom with your leaf rake? (again, without digging through all the posts, I am asking some questions that are probably answered already), you do have a leaf rake right? What kind of vacuum head do you have? I know you have the polaris but a high quality vacuum head can do a lot of grunt work pulling debris off the deep end.

Again, just .. it is odd, but it's gonna be in front of us.

Dr's school, expect common problems to be presented in uncommon ways.

When you hear hoof steps think Horse's not Zebra's.
 

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