Help! New plaster job - trowel lines and footprints - what to do???

[decathletewb]

Just had new plaster installed last week and in my opinion, it's the worst pool job I've ever seen. It's a return/light chip out job. Crew shows up unannounced after 5pm and is packed/gone before 7pm. The new plaster has highly visible trowel lines, foot/spike prints and just very uneven surface all over. Seems to me the crew spent no time on finish work, just shot it, troweled it, did a rough finish and left. The old plaster was nothing like this. The pool contractor denies there is anything wrong at all. I'm attaching some pics so you can see that even though with poor photo equipment the lines and uneven surfaces are quite obvious. As a first time pool owner I need advice on how to handle this with the contractor. Please help!!!

In the pictures, the curved lines you see on the left side of the pool are not light rings. They are trowel lines from where the plaster was spread unevenly and not smoothed out properly. So it looks like my pool has a rib cage.

 

[decathletewb]

Just had new plaster installed last week and in my opinion, it's the worst pool job I've ever seen. It's a return/light chip out job. Crew shows up unannounced after 5pm and is packed/gone before 7pm. The new plaster has highly visible trowel lines, foot/spike prints and just very uneven surface all over. Seems to me the crew spent no time on finish work, just shot it, troweled it, did a rough finish and left. The old plaster was nothing like this. The pool contractor denies there is anything wrong at all. I'm attaching some pics so you can see that even though with poor photo equipment the lines and uneven surfaces are quite obvious. As a first time pool owner I need advice on how to handle this with the contractor. Please help!!!

Maybe a better way to ask for help here is to ask "is this situation repairable or does the plaster have to be redone?"

 

[tstex]

Do you have a contract or SOW? What do they say for workmanship and warranty?

Do you still owe them for the job ?

 

[decathletewb]

Do you have a contract or SOW? What do they say for workmanship and warranty?

Do you still owe them for the job ?

Thank you for responding! There is no contract, SOW or terms of service. So nothing in writing that addresses workmanship/warranty. I have not paid him for the job yet, so I do still have some leverage. I would have paid him something the day we met to go over my complaint. But due to his denial and defensiveness, along with an extreme lack of professionalism, I decided to hold onto the payment until we have something firm worked out. I just don't know if there is a resolution. If it can be repaired, then I'd like to pay him for perhaps 70% of the work, then the remainder upon correction of the issues. But I have no idea if these problems can be worked out of the plaster. They just completed the job at 7pm on Thursday the 19th, so I'm assuming the plaster hasn't cured properly yet.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Properly Curing plaster is a willful task..

The photos look like any pool under a night light.

Post daytime photos at your leisure.


Btw I can only view the first 2 images

 

[satpoolman]

The photos look like any pool under a night light.

Exactly what I was thinking. Imperfections noticed in daylight are a different story, though.

Regards,
E

 

[PoolGate]

Night shots show everything. Plaster will never be perfect. Here is a shot of mine at night. I am very happy with the plaster.

 

[decathletewb]

Properly Curing plaster is a willful task..

The photos look like any pool under a night light.

Post daytime photos at your leisure.


Btw I can only view the first 2 images

Yeah, I understand. It's difficult to get the issues to show well in any pic, at any time. But they are definitely there. I wasn't able to get any pictures before the pool was filled. I've been in and seen a lot of pools in my 51 years. This situation is about poor workmanship and lack of time/effort/attention to detail. Even my 11 year old daughter noticed the difference and asked me "why is the pool so wavy?"
My question is, if severe trowel lines are there (which they are in this case) then is it repairable or does the plaster have to be resprayed?

- - - Updated - - -

No expectations of "perfect" here. Just reasonable expectations of workmanship.

- - - Updated - - -

So let's assume the issues are there (which they are). Are the issues repairable or does the pool have to be resprayed to eliminate the speed bumps that currently exist?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Pool Gate is correct- night time shots do show *everything*.....best time to vacuum if you ask me.

Post some day time shots if you can. I think that is the only way to determine if something needs fixing. Every pool looks questionable at night, IMO

Maddie

 

[decathletewb]

Pool Gate is correct- night time shots do show *everything*.....best time to vacuum if you ask me.

Post some day time shots if you can. I think that is the only way to determine if something needs fixing. Every pool looks questionable at night, IMO

Maddie

At this point I'm really just trying to determine if such issues (trowel lines, failure to smooth out plaster properly) are normally repairable, in a general sense. The pictures aren't doing any good because I can't get good shots of everything. So it's not a matter of determining whether something needs fixing--I already know it needs to be corrected. It would just be helpful to know what can be done about such issues. I would be very happy to find out that they can be fixed and at least I would have something to go back to the contractor with. Thank you for your response.

 

[kimkats]

I don't think it can be "fixed" as the plaster is hardened now. It is what it is now.

Kim TFP MOD

 

[Owner/Builder]

You need to call another contractor and see what the say. Laying plaster is an art and no two plaster jobs are alike. You will always have some ripples and waves in the plaster and other imperfections. Handprints and footprints are not acceptable though. I had quite a few footprints in my dark gray plaster and have found that lightly sanding with some 350 wet/dry sandpaper will make the footprints disappear. I sand in circles and feather out the edges.

 

[BattleOfYakima]

I appreciate that even though I'm sure your emotions are all over the place, you are approaching this with a productive attitude. Here's my food for thought:

I wonder if this is just some surface imperfections (that do happen sometimes) on an otherwise quality job or if this is reflective of a flawed build. Do you have any build pictures or video?

- This is not legal advise, but if I were you, I would withhold payment until I make a decision.

Perhaps a few other opinions are in order from other installers that can see it with their own eyes in person. Pros: more opinions Cons: Potential cost for each one's visit and no assurance it helps

If you pass on that: It becomes a two front issue: 1) if you will accept the work as-is with no warranty, how much of the previously agreed upon price, if any, is the contractor fairly owed if the work will remain 2) if you refuse to accept the work as-is, what do you want done? them to sand, vac, and warranty? (note: warranties can be fickle, worthless things if not worded correctly and backed by an honest company)

Additionally, how far are you willing to take negotiations with them - are you going to be demanding enough and stay strong to withhold payment or should you just lawyer up now and have them negotiate for you?

 

[decathletewb]

You need to call another contractor and see what the say. Laying plaster is an art and no two plaster jobs are alike. You will always have some ripples and waves in the plaster and other imperfections. Handprints and footprints are not acceptable though. I had quite a few footprints in my dark gray plaster and have found that lightly sanding with some 350 wet/dry sandpaper will make the footprints disappear. I sand in circles and feather out the edges.

Thank you very much for the reply. I'm hopeful that the contractor can improve the looks by using this method. I think it's worth a shot. And I think it is wise to get a second set of eyes on this, so I'll try to get someone out tomorrow for a 2nd opinion. Really appreciate your comments.

 

[decathletewb]

I don't think it can be "fixed" as the plaster is hardened now. It is what it is now.

Kim TFP MOD

Thank you Kim. If this is the case then I guess my only option is to hold out for a re-do. :-(

- - - Updated - - -

I appreciate that even though I'm sure your emotions are all over the place, you are approaching this with a productive attitude. Here's my food for thought:

I wonder if this is just some surface imperfections (that do happen sometimes) on an otherwise quality job or if this is reflective of a flawed build. Do you have any build pictures or video?

- This is not legal advise, but if I were you, I would withhold payment until I make a decision.

Perhaps a few other opinions are in order from other installers that can see it with their own eyes in person. Pros: more opinions Cons: Potential cost for each one's visit and no assurance it helps

If you pass on that: It becomes a two front issue: 1) if you will accept the work as-is with no warranty, how much of the previously agreed upon price, if any, is the contractor fairly owed if the work will remain 2) if you refuse to accept the work as-is, what do you want done? them to sand, vac, and warranty? (note: warranties can be fickle, worthless things if not worded correctly and backed by an honest company)

Additionally, how far are you willing to take negotiations with them - are you going to be demanding enough and stay strong to withhold payment or should you just lawyer up now and have them negotiate for you?

Well, I wrote a very thorough and thoughtful reply to your message but it didn't save for some reason! Thank you so much and this has been the most helpful post for me thus far! I'm going to hold out and try to see if anything can be done to improve the aesthetics. And for warranty, I'm going to ask him to provide a signed/written copy for my records since I don't have anything right now other than words. I don't trust the guy and I worry that with the rushed install, there may be problems in the future assuming I have to live with the pool as-is. Getting a 2nd opinion tomorrow or Friday, so hopefully that will help also. Thanks again for your comments, things to think about and advice! I'm thankful that people are willing to help.

 

[BattleOfYakima]

Thank you! Please feel free to post any additional questions or updates, as well as any suggestions/lessons learned for future people who may end up in your situation and find your thread.

 

[decathletewb]

Thank you! Please feel free to post any additional questions or updates, as well as any suggestions/lessons learned for future people who may end up in your situation and find your thread.

Yes, I will definitely post how things end up. Unfortunately, the contractor has been avoiding me. Not returning my messages so still no resolution in sight. And now there has been a new development as I've noticed that the pool is losing about 1-2 inches of water every day. I didn't notice early on because I had to do a lot of backwashing and filter cleaning to remove dust and debris. But it has been consistently losing water. Could the plaster be leaking some place? I noticed when the contractor did the chip out, the prep guy breached the concrete in several spots, including around the light and around one of the returns.

 

[kimkats]

You can do the "bucket test" to see if it is normal for this time of year. Here is a link to an old thread about it: Water level bucket test

Kim

 

[decathletewb]

You can do the "bucket test" to see if it is normal for this time of year. Here is a link to an old thread about it: Water level bucket test

Kim

Thank you Kim!

 

[BattleOfYakima]

2nd the bucket test. Right now is brutal here in FL. No rain. High UV. Some wind. I'm adding water 2x a week ... a lot of water. I would swear I have a leak if not for the bucket test passing. You could have a leak, or not. Bucket test. Additionally, you can measure the water surface drop from a fixed point - and see if it does less than 1/8", less than 1/4". less than 1/2" per 24 hours and share results IN ADDITION to bucket test.

Side-note: Even though you may end up deciding to escalate this to the authorities (Division of consumer services or [SIZE=-1]Department of Business and Professional Regulation or whatever) you may be best protected and prepared to see an attorney that gives free/reasonable price consultations first.


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