- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,903
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Recent CPO class/ pool maintenace debacle/Clorox now 6.0% sodium hypo
- Thread starter BigRobRN
- Start date
Perhaps someone has been doing this very thing (with a modified TFP method) successfully for years.
;-)The problem with that business model (aside from the sticky situation of repackaging this site's materials for retail sales to the public without authorization) is that there isn't a clear market for what you're proposing--it's a solution in search of a problem.
To the millions of pool care customers out there you are describing a non-issue. They pay their hundred per month to someone and their pool is fine and dandy. Longterm damage won't be realized for over a decade and long after the average homeowner has already moved on to another property.
My neighbors have kids and they all perk up when I describe how I maintain my pool, but none of them have taken any steps to do anything different. They use their pools frequently with their kids, and lots of people from around the neighborhood, and I don't see any of them doing their own maintenance. They have enough disposable income to not worry about shaving a little here or there. I could have the same discussion with people regarding my use of cloth diapers for my children--interested and willing to acknowledge the fiscal/environmental savings but that's about the extent of it.
Acknowledging that most pool owners are going to be part of the fire and forget customers and turning attention to the DIYers doesn't really solve the issue. The DIYer is already aware of this site or, if they aren't, capable of finding it out. Your first training session will frequently be your last. What would you sell the service for in order to make any profit for your time? By the time you've packaged up the test kit, hardware, and time to test/train, you'd be lucky to break even if you keep pricing competitive with the other pool crews in your area.
If you can't keep the price competitive with the local competition (apples to oranges doesn't matter, to the great majority of people a pool cleaned is a cleaned pool regardless of methodology), then you might as well reformulate your entire business plan. That business plan would have to be catering to the high-end, niche customer who is not cost sensitive (the TFP method strikes me as cost sensitive with the owner responsible for the labor, which is where the savings are derived) that you can sell on the water quality (feel, smell, etc.) differences and automation. You'd want to get certified as a pool builder, not just maintenance, and then sell a complete package of automation with you maintaining *that* equipment as part of the pool. But you'd have to build everything in to the estimate and yearly contract, including expensive probes and remote monitoring. The premise is that *someone* (or something) has to do the expensive part, labor, in order for this TFP method to work out and save money for the owner or you have to cater to customers who are not concerned with "saving" money.
To the millions of pool care customers out there you are describing a non-issue. They pay their hundred per month to someone and their pool is fine and dandy. Longterm damage won't be realized for over a decade and long after the average homeowner has already moved on to another property.
My neighbors have kids and they all perk up when I describe how I maintain my pool, but none of them have taken any steps to do anything different. They use their pools frequently with their kids, and lots of people from around the neighborhood, and I don't see any of them doing their own maintenance. They have enough disposable income to not worry about shaving a little here or there. I could have the same discussion with people regarding my use of cloth diapers for my children--interested and willing to acknowledge the fiscal/environmental savings but that's about the extent of it.
Acknowledging that most pool owners are going to be part of the fire and forget customers and turning attention to the DIYers doesn't really solve the issue. The DIYer is already aware of this site or, if they aren't, capable of finding it out. Your first training session will frequently be your last. What would you sell the service for in order to make any profit for your time? By the time you've packaged up the test kit, hardware, and time to test/train, you'd be lucky to break even if you keep pricing competitive with the other pool crews in your area.
If you can't keep the price competitive with the local competition (apples to oranges doesn't matter, to the great majority of people a pool cleaned is a cleaned pool regardless of methodology), then you might as well reformulate your entire business plan. That business plan would have to be catering to the high-end, niche customer who is not cost sensitive (the TFP method strikes me as cost sensitive with the owner responsible for the labor, which is where the savings are derived) that you can sell on the water quality (feel, smell, etc.) differences and automation. You'd want to get certified as a pool builder, not just maintenance, and then sell a complete package of automation with you maintaining *that* equipment as part of the pool. But you'd have to build everything in to the estimate and yearly contract, including expensive probes and remote monitoring. The premise is that *someone* (or something) has to do the expensive part, labor, in order for this TFP method to work out and save money for the owner or you have to cater to customers who are not concerned with "saving" money.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,903
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Absolutely agree that my half-baked business model would be a tough sell. But selling is what it would require. That's what I was referring to in the paragraph that started with "You'd need some slick marketing material, to explain the methodology, along with the consequences of using the typical weekly service sham. You know, scare tactics!"
And my model was partly based on one of the pools I'm trying to bring here. They know their PG is not doing what he should be doing, but they are completely intimidated by the maintenance myth and keep using him. "I don't want to brush the pool!" was the wife's complaint. But I think with a little hand holding, she might do some of the tasks.
So I was suggesting a partnership, easy stuff to the client, what they don't want to do to the pool guy. Seems like there would be enough stuff to do monthly to keep a client. Sure, some would just abandon and go full-time TFP, but a lot wouldn't, I think. Hard to know if the math would work, though, profit-wise, I admit.
I used a pool guy for years. My pool looked great, most of the time. I didn't know what I didn't know. But once it was made clear to me what I'd been uninformed about, firing that pool guy was a no-brainer.
I was very leery of PV solar. But I kept hearing about it, so I checked it out. It took a sales guy, sitting at my table, with all his marketing stuff, charts and facts and figures, but it worked and I forked it over. Sales technique would be key... You might need clever advertising. You might get some word of mouth. The industry is so engrained with the sham, that it would be uphill for sure. But I still believe there is a market: those that would want to pay a little less and do a little of the work, and end up with a much better product.
I'm trying to think of an analogy... People that would pay a landscaper to put in a yard, but then do the watering and mowing and weeding themselves to save the monthly maintenance fees. But then call the guy back to do the annual trimming and replanting. Sort of like that. But are there enough of those types of people to keep a pool guy afloat?
And my model was partly based on one of the pools I'm trying to bring here. They know their PG is not doing what he should be doing, but they are completely intimidated by the maintenance myth and keep using him. "I don't want to brush the pool!" was the wife's complaint. But I think with a little hand holding, she might do some of the tasks.
So I was suggesting a partnership, easy stuff to the client, what they don't want to do to the pool guy. Seems like there would be enough stuff to do monthly to keep a client. Sure, some would just abandon and go full-time TFP, but a lot wouldn't, I think. Hard to know if the math would work, though, profit-wise, I admit.
I used a pool guy for years. My pool looked great, most of the time. I didn't know what I didn't know. But once it was made clear to me what I'd been uninformed about, firing that pool guy was a no-brainer.
I was very leery of PV solar. But I kept hearing about it, so I checked it out. It took a sales guy, sitting at my table, with all his marketing stuff, charts and facts and figures, but it worked and I forked it over. Sales technique would be key... You might need clever advertising. You might get some word of mouth. The industry is so engrained with the sham, that it would be uphill for sure. But I still believe there is a market: those that would want to pay a little less and do a little of the work, and end up with a much better product.
I'm trying to think of an analogy... People that would pay a landscaper to put in a yard, but then do the watering and mowing and weeding themselves to save the monthly maintenance fees. But then call the guy back to do the annual trimming and replanting. Sort of like that. But are there enough of those types of people to keep a pool guy afloat?
You both make very valid points, but I think it all comes down to the word “care”. Do people really care enough to go the extra mile? For the most part, heck no!
I mean here it is 2018, and I’m amazed at the amount of people that don’t recycle!?! You have to walk to the garbage can, so what’s the friggin difference if you put it in the trash, or put the can in the bin! There’s a million different products out there to make the task easier, but nope, they just don’t care!!
So with that mentality of not caring, having disposable income, letting someone else deal with after I’m gone, etc, etc, how would you make it really work?
Word of mouth and a slow but steady business model. Definitely don’t go quitting your day job and dive head first, but rather one here, and another and so on.
It sucks, but people can’t even drive their car without texting, what makes one think they’re going to care about their pool!!
I mean here it is 2018, and I’m amazed at the amount of people that don’t recycle!?! You have to walk to the garbage can, so what’s the friggin difference if you put it in the trash, or put the can in the bin! There’s a million different products out there to make the task easier, but nope, they just don’t care!!
So with that mentality of not caring, having disposable income, letting someone else deal with after I’m gone, etc, etc, how would you make it really work?
Word of mouth and a slow but steady business model. Definitely don’t go quitting your day job and dive head first, but rather one here, and another and so on.
It sucks, but people can’t even drive their car without texting, what makes one think they’re going to care about their pool!!
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,903
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Fear!! Tried and true MO...
Remember those vacuum cleaner salesmen? They'd come in your home, vacuum an area with your vac, then the same area with theirs, and show you the dirt? Scare you with all the germs and bugs your vac is missing. "Where do I sign?!" (I think that was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond!)
Test their pool. Show them the results. Show them the science. Talk about unsanitary water and all that is floating around in their pool. Give them some ball park figures about how much plaster replacement is going to cost... I don't know.
You're probably right. People are lazy. They don't care about their planet, or their cars or their kids brains on video games, or what they eat... why would they care about their pool water...
This may be the typical "Pool Service" stereotype, but some of us actually know what we're doing.
I run a very successful pool service business that maintains several residential pools on a weekly basis and use a combination of liquid & 3" tablet chlorine. Every pool is different, and good record keeping is the key for me. So yes, balancing pool chemicals on a weekly basis can be done with no issues if you educate yourself & know what you're doing.
Ditto - tabs & lithium hypochlorite, bi-carb & acid here.
& backwash weekly if needed of not, that old “fight pollution with dilution”
(Chlorine generator pools paired with cartridge filters)
- May 23, 2015
- 24,459
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Lithium hypochlorite runs about 3X the price of cal hypo shock but won’t cause scaling problems because almost all lithium salts are highly soluble in water.
PoolguyinCT doses all his Greenwich customers with lithium because the by-product, lithium carbonate, keeps all his high-strung “princess” clients nice and mellow...no yelling at the pool-boy when the lithium is making you feel grooooovy maaaaan
Lithium hypochlorite runs about 3X the price of cal hypo shock but won’t cause scaling problems because almost all lithium salts are highly soluble in water.
PoolguyinCT doses all his Greenwich customers with lithium because the by-product, lithium carbonate, keeps all his high-strung “princess” clients nice and mellow...no yelling at the pool-boy when the lithium is making you feel grooooovy maaaaan
Now that's good stuff!
I actually avoid Fairfield county like the plague, Merit Parkway trafffic , is brutal for us impoverished commoners in central CT.
Im surprised Joyfull didn’t bust me on the sulfate or chlorate byproducts of li hypo..
That’s why I backwash weekly if needed or not..
- May 23, 2015
- 24,459
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I spent about 15 months of my early working life enjoying the bucolic scenery of the Merritt Parkway (2 r’s and 2 t’s) and the joy of dreaming about owning one of those beautiful homes in Fu-Fu County (that’s what we jokingly referred to Fairfield County as...very fu-fu). Then I merged the insights of my career choices with personal finances and it taught me I’d better win the CT Powerball as there wasn’t a snowball’s chance in hades of us ever living there....well, maybe as some hedge fund manager’s personal pool-boy living in the 2500 sq ft pool house....I don’t do doggie doo-doo so I’d have to leave that job up to the misses.
As for chlorates - even well manufactured sodium hypochlorite liquid (aka, bleach) will have chlorates in it from the various degradation pathways. Sulfates, not so much but cal-hypo has sulfates too and no ones ever suffered. They’re just not a big deal in routine pool care.
Backwashing...what’s that?? I simply tear down my monster DE filter once per year and it’s all good .... which reminds me hmmmmm .... oh well, another item for the never ending to-do list.
As for chlorates - even well manufactured sodium hypochlorite liquid (aka, bleach) will have chlorates in it from the various degradation pathways. Sulfates, not so much but cal-hypo has sulfates too and no ones ever suffered. They’re just not a big deal in routine pool care.
I concur (obviously.) was I bating you? in some sick way, yes.. but more so interested & curious to your well trained feedback/input.
I’ll take it as the joyful compliance stamp..
Btw
PoolB*y is a very very bad word..
I concur (obviously.) was I bating you? in some sick way, yes.. but more so interested & curious to your well trained feedback/input.
I’ll take it as the joyful compliance stamp..
Btw
PoolB*y is a very very bad word..
I'm going to be a dissenter. I live in the South, and I've gone on a 2 week July vacation and returned to a clean and balanced pool. Once you get everything balanced for the most part, everything will be fine for a week at a time as long as you have a form of chlorine being added. The problem, of course, is adding solid chlorine either adds calcium or cya. So, the solution is a SWCG or a stenner pump. Now, could a cell or pump go bad and cause havoc? Sure it could, but that is true with any equipment. Of course, you would need to make a special trip (or have them be willing to do a little extra) if there is a major storm that blows tons of debris in the pool.
Your initial posts says they don't have a SWCG, but it doesn't say why. Do they not want salt water, do they not want to front the cost, or have they not considered it? If they don't want to spend the money, it's not worth it to be their pool guy. A T-Cell-15 salt cell is $420 on Amazon. If they don't want salt, ask them why, or offer to install a Stenner pump instead. Regardless, I don't see why a weekly maintenance schedule cannot work as long as you have a consistent and reliable means of adding chlorine. PH can be balanced weekly, and everything else less often than that.
Your initial posts says they don't have a SWCG, but it doesn't say why. Do they not want salt water, do they not want to front the cost, or have they not considered it? If they don't want to spend the money, it's not worth it to be their pool guy. A T-Cell-15 salt cell is $420 on Amazon. If they don't want salt, ask them why, or offer to install a Stenner pump instead. Regardless, I don't see why a weekly maintenance schedule cannot work as long as you have a consistent and reliable means of adding chlorine. PH can be balanced weekly, and everything else less often than that.
It's hit or miss with SWCG. Some have it, some don't. I'd much rather encourage the pool owner to consider having a SWCG installed rather than a Stenner pump. I'm not sure I'd be willing to plumb one in or install either in being that I never have.
Hey hey hey, go easy there. I was born and raised in Fairfield country, nuttin fu-fu with this boy here. Although I will divulge that my friends and I always went trick-or-treating in the posh neighborhoods of Fairfield and Westport, only to return to the “other side of the tracks” in Bridgeport.
I have read on more than one post on here that intense sun and UV exposure like we have here in south Louisiana "may" cause CYA to degrade/oxidize
CYA will degrade but it is a very slow process. Way too slow to count on that as a method to control CYA levels.