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Thread: A "Heater Check-up".

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    A "Heater Check-up".

    Hello to All,

    Saw this ad sent to me.

    I get all the rest, but is it valid to check "internal gas-line condensation"? I run my pool heater enough [once every 10 days min], so Im not sure if this impacts it or not, but I just wanted to feedback to determine if this is worth doing or not? And if so, it is a DIY?

    Thanks tstex
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    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    This is a gimmick! I have been in the business for 10+ years and I never sell maintenance. I especially have never heard of someone coming out to remove "Internal Gas Line Condensation." It's a joke. You can remove the leaves and other debris that might get inside and save yourself some $$$.
    Paul
    Gastek Pool & Gas Services If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. Gastek Google review,
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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    The little 3” of pipe stub at the end of the gas line going into the heater is often called the “condensation” or “dust” trap. The theory being anything in the line will fall into that piece of pipe rather than clog up the gas manifold. I have heard competing opinions on its usefulness with the majority of opinions (in my statistically small and unscientific polling) saying that’s it’s just useless code requirement to have that stub of pipe.

    So perhaps those folks in that flyer go, unscrew the pipe and empty out all the cigarette ashes that make it not your residential gas supply
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Hmmm... when we open we vac or stick a leaf blower in heaters to remove all the winter skank from cabinet & exposed exchangers and burner trays...
    .. I didn’t know I should be line itemizing this!!

    But seriously it’s a hustle & im sure they sell ton of pressure switches or the easiest switch to reach per model...

    ** a debris free heater is important..



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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolguyinCT View Post
    Hmmm... when we open we vac or stick a leaf blower in heaters to remove all the winter skank from cabinet & exposed exchangers and burner trays...
    .. I didn’t know I should be line itemizing this!!

    But seriously it’s a hustle & im sure they sell ton of pressure switches or the easiest switch to reach per model...

    ** a debris free heater is important..
    You charge them for the number of times you have to run back & forth to the hardware store. In my case, I would make huge amounts of money off every customer....they’d also never call me back again so I’d likely run out of customers in a few months.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    A "Heater Check-up".

    Funny you say that - I saw an invoice from an electrician that actually said “trip 2 Home Depot - 2 man hours”

    He took his assistant, hence 2 man hours..
    I told him “try planning, stocking & loading your truck, you might start making money...”


    *** I paid the full ticket..

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    I believe the picture is clear / thx

    First, i don't have any trees in this area, and i put down weed barrier and rocks in the whole equipment area so no weedeaters or lawnmower hitting or throwing debris to equipment pad.

    Next, is there anywhere on our website, or other, that shows how to service a heater? I'd turn off gas and shut off breaker(s). Does the low voltage wire from automation box need to be addressed, meaning turn off automation breaker?

    Finally, i perceived a gimmick, but since we talked about condensation forming on heat exchanger when temp below 68, wondered if any merit here? Seems when that heater cranks and has been on awhile, it'd be tough for any moisture or condensation to remain.

    Thanks tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Here's my heater check up routine -

    1. Walk over to heater and put head near gas line. Take several deep breaths. Smell gas?

    NO - Awesome sauce!
    YES - Turn off valve at heater. Run like a scared & panicked chicken. Call qualified plumber. Consider smoking cessation classes offered by local outpatient clinic...

    2. Walk over to automation panel. Turn up heat setpoint to pool. Listen for heater ignition. When it turns on, put hand high over exhaust and feel for warm air. Is the air warm?

    YES - Awesome sauce!
    NO - Go grab a beer, wait 15mins and repeat step 2. (And endless programming loop might ensue which will either end when the beer supply runs out OR you pass out from inebriation). After regaining consciousness, put up a post on TFP and hope Paul, Pool Clown or JamesW responds with reassuring words.....and then do what they say to the letter.

    3. If Step 3 was a "YES", then walk over to shallow-end pool return, stick hand in water and feel for warm water. Is the water warm?

    YES - Awesome sauce!
    NO - Put up panicked post on TFP and hope Paul, Pool Clown or JamesW responds with reassuring words.....and then do whatever they say.

    That's about it. I should probably open the side panels at some point (never have and it's been 4 years) to see how many pack rat nests are in there but I figure the hot flame just burns those up and adds a little extra ooomph! to the heater output....
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    I believe the picture is clear / thx

    First, i don't have any trees in this area, and i put down weed barrier and rocks in the whole equipment area so no weedeaters or lawnmower hitting or throwing debris to equipment pad.

    Next, is there anywhere on our website, or other, that shows how to service a heater? I'd turn off gas and shut off breaker(s). Does the low voltage wire from automation box need to be addressed, meaning turn off automation breaker?

    Finally, i perceived a gimmick, but since we talked about condensation forming on heat exchanger when temp below 68, wondered if any merit here? Seems when that heater cranks and has been on awhile, it'd be tough for any moisture or condensation to remain.

    Thanks tstex
    You show a Hayward H400 in your signature. I am guessing it is not the FD unit but maybe the ED2. This unit is easy to clean. Unscrew the two screws that keep the lower panel in place. Check for dirt, leaves, and if you have any you can shop vac it out. Then screw panel back in place. The top of the unit pops off easily to check inside the top. Again you can vacuum up any leaves you might have inside. If you have an FD unit, that thing is sealed up pretty good and not much of anything gets inside but rodents to chew your wires. Outside of that, nothing really to do but turn it on and enjoy it.

    As for cleaning out the "drip leg" as it is called, I've disconnected thousands of them when replacing a heater and I don't recall ever finding anything inside. As long as your gas supplier does their job, you should have a clean supply of fuel. BTW, if you should ever open the gas line, with the gas shut off of course, it could take several tries for your heater to light as it will have to purge the air in the line now that you opened it up.
    Paul
    Gastek Pool & Gas Services If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. Gastek Google review,
    Check out some videos on my YouTube channel - Gastekservices on YouTube

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Matt and Paul,

    Thank you for your responses...

    Pat - I get an awesome sauce on all. However, I did not run the heater to test the smell of gas, but none now while idle. Many times, and the last time last week, I felt the exhaust vents and it was rather warm [check] and the jets in the spa certainly crank out the hot water w in a short time[check]...I never heat the pool, Houston heat does that for me.

    Paul, it is an FD and thanks, I updated signature. I always wash out bottom of pad w hose and keep area clean...I have bug guy spray around heater but not directly on it..I make him use the pump-up sprayer and not the pressure sprayer from hose off truck. I know that cranking once every 10 days burns out just about anything. I've heard the worse thing is spiders putting thick webs in the jet orifices and that plugs them- As I tell my little puppies, that's a no, no, no

    I'm going to fire her up tomorrow evening when it's 38 here in Houston..pool temp is 60. It was 55 last week and I got her up to 100 in about 1.45 mins.. once it gets near 80 degrees, it climbs quickly. My PVC run at least 140 ft to spa, so that's a lot of cold ground around those pipes for a run that long...If I were a snake, in winter I would buddy up to those pipes [2 ft down] during hibernation and hope the pool owner would run the spa a lot
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Spider webs in the orifices in the FD units, I have yet to come across that issue. I see leaking units the most.
    Paul
    Gastek Pool & Gas Services If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. Gastek Google review,
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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    I get cobwebs in my gas grille flame tubes....
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Quote Originally Posted by ps0303 View Post
    Spider webs in the orifices in the FD units, I have yet to come across that issue. I see leaking units the most.
    paul, can you pls be specific by what you mean "leaking units?" Also, is there a specific part or parts you can quote and is there a way,] if I turn off gas, turn off power to heater and auto panel, bleed gas lines], that you can instruct me to access the areas that leak and do a proactive check as a DIY'er ? I believe a tech gave me access to a .pdf of the tech service manual for the H400FD gas heater. However, I would best trust your insight on what I would need to do if appropriate. Also, any special tools.

    Thanks, tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I get cobwebs in my gas grille flame tubes....
    In a MasterTemp heater?? Now that I would have to see. The MasterTemp only has one orifice, in the gas line attached to the gas valve.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    paul, can you pls be specific by what you mean "leaking units?" Also, is there a specific part or parts you can quote and is there a way,] if I turn off gas, turn off power to heater and auto panel, bleed gas lines], that you can instruct me to access the areas that leak and do a proactive check as a DIY'er ? I believe a tech gave me access to a .pdf of the tech service manual for the H400FD gas heater. However, I would best trust your insight on what I would need to do if appropriate. Also, any special tools.

    Thanks, tstex
    Sorry I meant water leaks in the heat exchanger.
    Paul
    Gastek Pool & Gas Services If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. Gastek Google review,
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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Fast forward to 2:24. This is the same spot ALL of them that leak water end of leaking at.

    Hayward H350FDN Heat Exchanger Repair - YouTube
    Paul
    Gastek Pool & Gas Services If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. Gastek Google review,
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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Paul, thanks for the video.

    Since he took out the heat exchanger from the main body, I lost the perspective of where it would be installed in the unit. Therefore, a few brief ques's:

    1. If I'm standing in front of my heater where the LED display is at the right front, where would the leaks usually occur?

    2. W the heat-exchanger out, it looked like a bunch of debris was in the main unit. Is there a way for me to perform a visual of main areas of potential debris and then clean if needed?

    3. Is it a DIY'er to perform any of the above? And, is there anything that once you open [a ferrule pr other] is it an issue to re-tighten or seal? Also Paul, are there any special tools I will need if you recommend me attempting?

    Thanks, tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    If you had a heat exchanger leak, it is the left side back corner as you are standing in front of it.

    You would have to dismantle the entire top portion of the heater to get inside it correctly like he showed in the video. All of that material you see inside his unit is because of the leak. If you do not have a leak, I would assume that your heater isn't like the one in the video.

    Unless you are very handy and pay attention to details, it wouldn't be advised to do all of this. There are lots of screws and wiring you have to disconnect.
    Paul
    Gastek Pool & Gas Services If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. Gastek Google review,
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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Paul/ps0303 wrote: "Unless you are very handy and pay attention to details, it wouldn't be advised to do all of this. There are lots of screws and wiring you have to disconnect"

    Does living w wife, 3 daughters, a nanny and 2 female golden retrievers qualify for having to be handy and an eye for attn to detail ?

    Here's the easiest one to please. All she needs is a squirrel on the fence and she's set. She's 13 and still some fire under the hood
    Attached Images Attached Images
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    That’s a fun video to watch. Holy cow that’s a ton of screws and bolts to take apart!! Me personally, I would just put in the new heat exchanger and be done with it. Pulling out the torch and trying to seal a pinhole is asking for grief. I’m sure the heat exchangers are expensive parts to replace but seeing all those heater guts and screws lying about, that’s a disassembly I could only muster the energy for ONCE....

    - - - Updated - - -

    And what was up with that pool room equipment?? I think The Falcon Heavy rocket that SpaceX just launched has fewer pipes and valves than that guy’s pool....
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: A "Heater Check-up".

    Joyful noise wrote:

    "And what was up with that pool room equipment?? I think The Falcon Heavy rocket that SpaceX just launched has fewer pipes and valves than that guy’s pool...."

    That's pretty funny Matt. I was thinking the exact same thing and expecting the Professor from Back to the Future to walk in and help w the video...LOL
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward H400FD 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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