Hi From Sunny Australia

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AusJohn

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Jan 26, 2018
38
Central Coast NSW, Australia
Hi There,

new member here from Australia. I've visited the forum a few times over the years to check out suggestions on reliable equipment and found it a very useful place. I thought I should probably join up as I may be able to contribute sometimes.

I'm a chemist by profession, anayltical rather than pharmaceutical, and work primarily in water treatment solutions in mining and municipal waste water treatment.
I've been working professionally in this area for over 20 years, so pool water chemistry is nothing new to me, but as I've spent many years explaining concepts like alkalinity and calcite saturation to others, I can say that the explanations of pool water chemistry and the advice provided here, are clear, sensible and offer a straight forward method for anyone to keep on top of pool maintenance. It really isn't rocket science, but there are certainly traps for new players and those are well covered here. Well done to the team here at TFP.

A quick disclaimer, the company I work for does manufacture a huge range of chemicals and would be a supplier to some of the companies formulating solutions to the swimming pool and spa industry. We however tend to deal in very large volumes so would never be dealing with the public. In fact most of our business to pool supply companies would be small enough to be managed through distributors so I have no direct ties to any company in the swimming pool industry.

cheers,

AusJohn
 
Hi John, happy Australia Day. I'm from Brisbane and our pool build starts on Thursday. Eek [emoji51] Pool chemistry has been my biggest concern through this whole process. Have a very basic understanding after hanging around here for a few months and reading through pool school. Hopefully you'll hang around, as it sounds like you have great knowledge to contribute.
 
Welcome AusJohn!

As a chemist, and a pool owner :) whats your thoughts on the general pool chemical levels that are recommended by manufacturers and government standards, and then the seemingly more recent science based evidence that TFP recommends - like the CYA/FC relationship etc. Pool stores would say in a blanket statement things like "Never let your FC go over 3", but we now know after diving deep on the learnings here that that is just a little insane.

Sorry to kick off with a hard hitting question! especially as it sounds like you're at the top of the chain there in chemical supplies etc - but it genuinely intrigues me as to how long it will be before some of the teachings here will be taken up by stores and gov standards etc. It feels like they're quite a few years behind?

Pete
 
Following as I'm curious too. Our fc isn't meant to get over 2-3 but that puts it way too low for the cya recommended by tfp for a swcg. Wondering how I'm going to maintain my new pool's warranty. At the end of the day though, it's probably not worth the paper it's written on so I will go with tfp method. I've had so many friends telling me I'll need to add this concoction or that and this is otherwise my children will pick up ringworm from their friends! I'm pretty sure good basic chemistry will take of that. Meanwhile I'm noticing how terrible their pool store managed pools look.
 
This was really challenging for me as I got used to TFP, so I'm very interested to hear AusJohn's thoughts for sure. Great question!

We're fortunate here compared to America because the effect of stabiliser is recognised. Although not to the extent of the 7.5% ratio, we're a big step ahead. Also, pool chemicals are regulated by the Australian Pesticide and Veterinary Medicine Authority (APVMA). As directed by APVMA, chlorinating liquid labels here provide a minimum of 3 ppm FC for stabilised outdoor pools above 26oC. You can see this on a jug of chlorine most anywhere because of APVMA's work. See label below.

If you're required to maintain a certain frequency of testing and records, you can still use TFPC and stay within "industry" guidelines. The biggest difference is to maintain 40 ppm CYA, so that 3 or 4 ppm FC works. PoolMath actually has an option to set goals as "Traditional Pool" which is pretty close to "industry" standards. You'll consume more chlorine, but it all works.

Aus Chlorine Label.jpg
 
Thanks needsajet, that's very helpful. It's good to know there can be a happy medium. Is it ok to run cya at 40 with a swcg? I thought I'd read they need a minimum of 70 of 80, thus needing a much higher fc level. If I could get away with fc 3 and cya 40 I think my pool builder would be happy.
 
Long story, but running CYA low will just cause you to consume more chlorine daily, but probably still well within your SWG's ability to keep up. The SWG will just have to run more than when you raise your CYA higher. Higher CYA for SWG is to reduce the speed of upward pH creep. So keep an eye on your pH and correct as necessary, but it's not a huge difference.

Higher CYA is the right way to go for great water and low daily FC consumption, but anywhere from 30 ppm to 80 ppm CYA will get the job done. Up there where the sun is high in the sky, I'm quite sure you'll eventually want higher CYA, but you can make it all work either way.
 

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