Leak after pool is closed for the winter

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dm123

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Dec 13, 2017
29
Birmingham, AL
Hi all! I have a large oval inground pool. This was our first year as pool owners, but I grew up with a pool so I thought I knew enough. I did not. This pool has had some issues.

The biggest issue now is this leak. We paid for a company to come out and install a safety cover, plus close and winterize the pool, back in September. We were told after they came out that there was no way for them to winterize our pump/filter (both purchased new this summer) due to the way the pool is built. They said that our pump/filter sit below the water table, so they would have to drain the whole pool to get the water out and winterize it.. The solution was whenever it got below freezing, just go out and turn on the pump to keep water running. Ok, pain in the butt, but not a huge deal. The first freeze comes a couple of weeks ago and I go to turn it on. There is very little water in the pump basket and when my husband flipped the switch it was clear there was no water coming through, so we switched it off and called them back. They came out to look and were maybe there 20 mins according to their own time tag. They said they had winterized the pump, but we needed to put water in the pool and they'd come back out. I was perplexed because we were told that it was impossible t o winterize. I called back, and apparently they had unplugged all the drain pumps and drained as much water as they could from the above ground pipes to avoid freezing until the water level is back up. I still didn't understand how the water level got low when the pool has been off and we had not had any leak problems since we've had the pool (Jan 2017). Snow came, it was clear the water level was lower as the safety cover shrank in massively, and the pool guy came to look again. I just got a call saying that there are only INCHES of water left in my shallow end and that we need to fill it up and pay for them to do a leak detection ($395). I am at a loss here. Not only did they do a spectacularly crappy job on installing the cover, now they're asking us to pay more. I don't know what to think or if I should get a second opinion. any advice appreciated! Is it possible that they drained it before on accident, or why would it be that low with no pump running and a cover on?
 
Also, when the pump broke over the summer and couldn't be fixed for over a week, we had no leakage / water loss. I'm just not sure if it is an actual leak or if what the technician did trying to drain the water out of the above ground pipes actually drained the pool until it's this low. I'm going to put water in it tonight and check water loss over the next few days to start with.
 
First of all, let me say hello and welcome you to the TFP forum. While I myself don't typically close my pool here in south Texas, I know enough about the basic principles and a few things you mention make me wonder what happened as well. Let's start with some basic things okay:
1. Please update your signature with all of your pool info (type, equipment, filter, any main drain?, etc). It's the first thing we look for on any post. :wink:
2. Even if your equipment pad is below the water line of the pool (which would result in water easily flowing to the equipment if opened), that is solved by plugging the suction/return jet line(s) giving water access back to the equipment pad and/or simply lowering the water level below the skimmer suction line and/or return jets. So for the techs to say they could not winterize your pool doesn't quite make sense to me. Lower the water level a bit, evacuate all the water from the pump, filter, and above ground lines, plug-off as needed, and you're most of the way there.
3. I suspect no water was in the pump's strainer basket when your husband first tried to turn it on which would explain the lack of prime and no water flow. By now, I suspect that's because the water level was low in the pool and not able to get to the pump.

But here we are today and you have next to no water in the pool's shell which is usually never good. Either way you'll need to start adding water right? So instead of calling them back, you could start adding water again, but go in stages. By that I mean add about a foot and watch for drops. If the water remains the same, keep going. If you have a leak, the water should drop to the point of access where the water is getting out. If you make it all the way up to the skimmer with no water loss, then perhaps the techs drained or allowed the pool to self-siphon itself by leaving a valve or plug open near the equipment pad which is lower than the waterline. But if you do get the pool full again, I wouldn't go past the skimmer since you plan on closing (winterizing) again anyways - right?

Hope this all makes sense. I suspect some other folks who close each year may have some thoughts as well. But those are my immediate concerns for now. Hope this helps get you going, and again ... welcome to TFP! :wave:
 
Thanks so much for your reply! I have updated my signature :)

Yes, with regards to#3, when I looked in the pump basket, there was a little water in the basket just not enough for it to prime. I started thinking maybe they had drained the pool below the skimmer level so they could winterize it, but then realized it couldn't be winterized due to water table issue and never filled it up again. That's when I called back to have them come look at it and tell us what to do (when they came back and spent 20 mins and said it was "winterized" now)

#2 - I agree, it did not make sense to me either, but they are supposed to be professionals. Yes, water flows easily from the pump if I open the pump basket to clean it. This is during normal operation. That's why I thought maybe they had drained it below skimmer trying to winterize it, couldn't, and just left it that way since the safety cover had been installed? Maybe they didn't think about me having to run it during freezes.

I plan to start refilling it as soon as I get a new hose (they took my 150 foot hose to use for the cover pump) today. My only concern is if the technician left a plug open then it will all drain out again. But I don't see how I really have an option. It needs water in it! I just honestly don't see how the water dropped so much in such a short time. We didn't have an issue with it until the tech came out, drained the water from the above ground pipes and "winterized it" last week. Also they have not been communicating well with me at all so I feel like I'm getting the run around. If there is a leak, I want to find it and fix it, but if it was self- or accidental drained, I don't want to give $400 to find nothing. Plus I'm out the money paid for extra water, the chemicals used to close, etc.
 
dm123:

Texas Splash has covered where you need to start. Is your pool a vinyl liner pool, concrete or fiberglass? It is possible something was damaged during the process causing the leak. But before we speculate, follow Pat's instructions to determine where the leak is. Regarding closing your pool, it is a fairly easy process. Please see my link below and what would be helpful is some pictures of your equipment pad (from all angles) and the pool as well. If you want to get the pool closed properly for the winter months, after you investigate the possible leak, this will not be a problem if you have an air compressor. Thank you.

Concept of closing an IG Swimming Pool

The concept of closing an in ground swimming pool
 
Thanks so much! The pool is vinyl. I'll update my signature with that, too. When we bought the house, the pool didn't have a cover. We bought the safety cover and the company said they would install and close the pool for us, so we said awesome. I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this soon and have it closed / out of mind until May! I've added some pictures (pool pic is taken from right in front of the pump, it slopes down and then the pump is there)View attachment 71440

IMG_1047.jpgView attachment 71441View attachment 71442IMG_1045.jpgIMG_1043.jpg
 
Unfortunately the pics didn't post - yet. You should be able to click on the tool bar in your post, select the icon that looks like a pointed square with dots at each corner, and attach your image(s). You should be able to upload at least one or two pics before you reach your limit.

Being a vinyl pool, watch closely as the water level rises for any peculiarities or situations where the water stops rising (or seems to drop). You never know if the vinyl may have gotten torn somewhere. We'll watch for pic updates and progress as you begin to refill and try our best as a group to help. As you'll soon see, some members are really good at what they do based on their experience and where they live (i.e. cold climates and closing every year). I don't see a need to have that company come back out (yet), unless after research you discover they are liable for something that went wrong. Keep us posted and hang in there.
 

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that's what I'm currently trying to figure out! I got a hose then realized to check the levels for a leak, I'm going to have to take the cover off somehow, at least a part of it. I've never had a safety cover (we used old school tarp and water bags growing up) so I'm going to have to read up on how they work. I know the level is low because the top is sinking in the cover after the snow (snowed the day after the guy came out and drained above ground pipes), and also the tech told me I only have 3 inches in the shallow end left. He then said I have a leak, and I need to fill the pool up again and pay $395 for sonar leak detection. I haven't been able to look myself yet though to determine the level. Tried today but didn't want to mess with the cover without reading up first.
 
Alright, so the main pool guy just called me back finally. According to him, there is a leak somewhere in the liner. I asked why we had been running the pool since January 2017 with no problems of leaks or losing water, even when the pump was broken for almost 2 weeks. He didn't have any idea why except maybe because it's cold now. He said I had 6 inches of water left in the shallow end. Again he is suggesting that I fill it back up with the cover on and then have them come do the sonar leak detection for $395. Is my best bet here just to uncover the pool and fill slowly to find the leak myself? If it's a liner leak I would think a patch would be an easy fix, not sure how hard it would be to find though. I honestly still don't understand how the pool lost so much water while covered / off from a liner leak when we've had it up and running since January 2017 with no major water loss. Is it possible that we had a leak and didn't know it?
 
I would suggest you peel the cover back in one area (shallow end), fill up 1' foot at a time, mark your spot and see where you are the next day. Then repeat the process. It appears that you already have found your leak, right about where the water has stopped. It is also possible that the cold weather created some sort of tear, but not 100% certain. After you determine the level, the whole safety cover may have to come up to find the tear as it could be anywhere in the pool. I know that in my pool, the 2 tears (no fault of mine but the pool company and a long story) shows signs of rusting on the liner when chlorine combined with the galvanized steel walls. Check for staining right at the level where the water stops.

How old is the liner? Once you find the tear, try patching it up. I know that leaving 1' in the shallow end would probably be fine during the winter months as well. anything less than that could potentially be a problem. You may have to use a small amount of heat to get the patch on, but not too much. The patch should stick pretty quickly and stay there all winter long. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
Thanks, guys. My husband is livid and is adamant that it's the pool people's fault because we didn't have a leak before they came and vacuumed / closed it. I don't think there is anyway to prove how the leak got there, though, even though we know it had to be sometime after the pool was closed or during closing. I'm going to start filling it up tomorrow and see where I get.
 
My husband is livid and is adamant that it's the pool people's fault because we didn't have a leak before they came and vacuumed / closed it.
Click to expand...
A very real possibility. Another reason this site is so valuable to pool owners who prefer to do things on their own - the right way ~ the first time ~ and cheaper. :) Like anything else, live & learn. I'm still learning. :hammer:
 
You are absolutely correct. They also couldn't get the diving board off to install the safety cover, so they just cut the bolts without even calling or asking us. Then told us we would have to buy a new bolt set from them. I am just so frustrated at this point. I'm hoping I can find the leak myself.
 
A safety cover goes around the diving board. Why would they need to remove the diving board. If the PB damaged something, they should take responsibility and pay for it. No need to be using them in the near future, but more in line with taking care of the pool yourself. For the aggravation and money, is it really worth it?
 

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