Questions about a possible leak....#frustrated

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Veccster

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Aug 30, 2016
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Pittsburgh PA
Construction finished April 2017 and the pool has been dropping water all summer. We were too busy using it and traveling to try and diagnose but that time has come. I've gone through 14 bags of salt this summer and had to refill on a weekly basis....plus lots of CYA. I'll get builder to fix but he lives an hour away and has asked me to try and diagnose.

I've run various bucket tests but need to organize my thoughts and try to go in order to figure this out.

No main drain...just 2 skimmers and 3 returns.
No overflow.
No backwash line. Have a cartridge filter.

Lost about 1/4 inch in the last 12 hours WITH THE PUMP RUNNING.

IF it was in the suction side pipes, I wouldn't lose water....I would only suck air....correct?

I do seem to have a small bubble of air in the pump basket but nothing major (IMO). And I do see tiny bubbles coming out of the returns. Very small though....almost looks like cloudy water.

Even this post seems disorganized. I'm just frustrated and hope someone here can point me in the right direction.

Thoughts?
 
Well, when you turn everything off and just let the pool sit, what happens? The water level will only go as low as the point at which the leak is occurring. So, if you shut everything off and the water level goes to the bottom of the skimmer and then stops, that's most likely where the leak is. If it leaks down to the returns, then the leak is there. You could also cap off the skimmer pipes and then the return pipes to see if the stops the water level from decreasing. If capping off one or the other stops the leak, then you have your answer.

If it's a plumbing leak, do you know where the lines run? Have you looked for wet spots in the ground near and around the lines?

Of course, if you want to spend lots of money (hundreds of dollars), there is the possibility that a leak detection company can find it...
 
Finding a leak is like fishing, you have to be patient. Have you called the builder and talked with them? They should offer some sort of help seeing it is new construction.
 
Yes, I have done bucket tests. And I'm certain there is a leak.

The past 2 nights, I sealed off each skimmer and did the bucket test. Leak was verified in both tests. The pump was running the entire time.

It's 10pm and I just sealed off both skimmers and all 3 returns (with plugs in everything). I'll report back tomorrow.

As stated, I did notify the builder and he will fix whatever is needed. The problem is that he lives over an hour away and it's silly to ask him to show up every day to check buckets - when I can do that for him. Maybe I'm too nice....
 
9/25 update:
I ran a bucket test last night that passed. I had all ports sealed (skimmers and returns). It's been 12hrs and water level in bucket and pool are exactly the same. I'll run another 10hrs until I get home tonight.

I think I'm going to open both skimmers tonight and leave the returns sealed.
 
When you plug the skimmers, are you plugging the pipes inside the skimmer or are you sealing the face of the skimmer with a plate?

So one or the other will isolate the skimmer plumbing from the skimmer box itself.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
When you plug the skimmers, are you plugging the pipes inside the skimmer or are you sealing the face of the skimmer with a plate?

So one or the other will isolate the skimmer plumbing from the skimmer box itself.
Click to expand...

I have the skimmer pipes sealed off right now (plugged the port below the basket). So that would eliminate the skimmer body as a possible problem - the problem is in either a skimmer pipe or return pipe. That makes me want to cry.
 
Right.

Ok, how accessible are the pipes? Do you have a lot of decking around the pool?

It’s frustrating for sure BUT you’re lucky to catch it now and it’s up to your PB to fix it. So aside from the possible inconvenience of ripping up some of the decking and yard, at least you don’t have to pay for it.

If it is a leaking pipe, you might consider seeing if a leak detection company could pinpoint the location for you so there isn’t a lot of exploratory digging. They might charge less since you’ve located the rough location.
 
Again to my original question....IF it is the skimmer pipe that is a problem, water SHOULD NOT leak when the pump is running, correct? It would suck air from the hole....not allow water to escape the hole, right?

My last 2 tests were done with the pump running the entire time and both tests failed.


Not sure if it matters but my equipment pad is above the pool.
 

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I don’t follow what you’re describing - how can you have the pumps running with the skimmers and the returns blocked up? The pump would go dry and burn out.

Perhaps you can very simply detail each test that you did and the result.
 
I ran the test 3 nights ago and shut one skimmer line off at the pad (forgot to plug the basket port).
I ran the test 2 nights ago and shut the other skimmer line off AND plugged the port.
So both tests were run with only one skimmer open. Pump was running the entire time and both tests FAILED.

And to my original question again....if it's a failed skimmer line, I wouldn't lose water - I'd suck air. So maybe it's a problem in the return side????
 
Pump running, it would be fairly rare for a water leak on the suction side.

Pump not running a water leak can occur almost anywhere in the system.

If your leak is on the return (pressure) side, you should be able to see it......either at the equipment or a wet spot from the underground return pipes.

You didn't ask, but a leak is VERY seldom underground. It can certainly be, but it usually isn't.

If you want to find the leak, you need to get methodical. First, shut off the pump and let the water drain down until the leak stops......that will tell you the level at which the leak is occuring.
 
duraleigh said:
Pump running, it would be fairly rare for a water leak on the suction side.

Pump not running a water leak can occur almost anywhere in the system.

If your leak is on the return (pressure) side, you should be able to see it......either at the equipment or a wet spot from the underground return pipes.

You didn't ask, but a leak is VERY seldom underground. It can certainly be, but it usually isn't.

If you want to find the leak, you need to get methodical. First, shut off the pump and let the water drain down until the leak stops......that will tell you the level at which the leak is occuring.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave. I know it's rare...I keep reading that in articles online. BUT I definitely have a leak and it's definitely not in the shell / vinyl.

The pool has a french drain around it that empties into a large swell in the yard (giant hole filled with stone and covered with dirt and grass). All of our downspouts go into this swell - it was put there by the house builder. So if there is a leak and it's draining through the french drain, I don't think I'd see wet spots in the yard.

I suppose I can shut everything off and just let it go but my pool will quickly turn to a swamp. Maybe I can continue putting bleach in to maintain some balance.
 
Your pool, when properly chlorinated, should not become a swamp for many, many days as long as you continue to add chlorine and brush. In fact, if you do regularly chlorinate and brush, I'm sure it will be fine. For added mixing you could throw a submersible pump in the deep end and run a hose over to the shallow end and just use that to help circulate the water while you wait for the level to drain down.

I can see how the French drain will make it difficult to detect a leak. This is where a leak detection company might be able to assist if you can get a good price from them. They have various types of equipment and probes for detecting leaking water.
 
I have the returns plugged and both skimmers open - pump off.

If it's leaking, it's leaking very slow. I'll snap a picture of the bucket tonight. It's very hard to tell but the pool water is slightly below the bucket water.

I feel like it was leaking much faster with pump on. I suppose I could just open everything up and let it go for a month or so. If it's skimmer, it will stop draining at the skimmer. If it's return, it will stop at the return.

Also, I know underground leaks are rare but we did have a fence installed - and 3 posts are questionably close to the pipes. The installer told me he found the pipes and was very careful around them....but he's also a piece of $#!+. We had other issues with him. There is no wet ground but I think water can drain through ground without surfacing.
 
Is that about 1/4" ?

Most pools will evaporate anywhere from 1/8-1/4" per day but the rate can be higher if the water temperature is significantly high than than the ambient air temperature. On my pool, the autofill will turn on at night because the air temperature will be in high 60's and the pool water will be in the high 70's.
 
This is why I'm frustrated. The pool seems to leak much slower when the pump is not running. I have no doubt there is a leak. I've gone through A LOT of salt this summer and there is not much splash out. I've filled the pool almost every week all summer long.

Regardless of water loss (due to evaporation)....loss of salt = leak.

But it's leaking soooo slow when the pump is off.

Grrrrrrrrr......
 

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