My pool needs help!!!

[GenBogausch]

Hello to everyone! New to TFP! I will try to keep this short and sweet, but I'm afraid that may be a task itself considering my pool has been anything but "Trouble Free". So, just a little background for your understanding of my never ending pool saga..... purchased a pool last summer mainly for our 3 boys ages 10,5&3. (We were BRAND new pool owners at this point and clueless To the pool water chemistry etc., we used the pool last summer for a bit with the addition of chlorine pucks and balancing the PH. Fall rolled around and we pretty much just let it sit. (We had plans of draining and moving to new location for this summer--didn't happen).

Fast forward to this summer.... after being consumed with baseball and playoffs the pool has now been severely neglected. (I know now.... lol). After baseball season ended I PROMISED my boys I would have the pool up and running to enjoy the remainder of the summer in this insane Texas heat! I was so wrong... (first off I should have drained, scrubbed, cleaned, brushed, power washed and or just PLOWED OVER the pool). But... I didn't ?. Too late now to turn back. I went from having the creature from the black lagoon living in my swamp of a pool--- to a now, blue, cloudy pool with I'm sure a disgusting amount of mess on the bottom. We have scooped and scooped and scooped tons of debris, and who knows what from the bottom...(who knew it could smell SO bad). I will spare you the details of all that lurked below the surface. But it appears to all be gone along with the different bugs that made the swamp their home. The pool has been vacuumed, brushed, etc., constantly until my new test kit came in. Test kit in hand and will post results here shortly. (Did I mention the pool was left uncovered after last season??)

Pump & filter were upgraded during this process because don't you know, my pump line broke from old one and flooded the entire yard with pool water after about a week of cleaning. So new pump,new filter,new sand, and converted to saltwater.

Last Friday I added:-roughly 2lbs CYA because it was barely registering. (This level was the result of test strip reading from pool company because that's all that was available)
-5 gallons 10% liquid chlorine bleachfrom Lowes. (Yes, 5 I was slightly irritated at this point to say the least)
- 60oz. Muriatic Acid (liquid) to bring down my TA which was really high. (If I remember correctly it was around 180-200)

Saturday&Sunday we swept,vacuumed,brushed and then hit REPEAT. This was done as much as time would allow both days. Chlorine was added at about 1/4 to 1/2 gallon every 6 hours or so just to keep it high enough to do some work... (while this was a complete guess while waiting for kit to come in). I do say, Saturday morning after the large amount of bleach etc., I could actually see a pretty drastic difference in clarity. It appears their are areas on the bottom of the pool where you can distinguish what is "dirty" and what is not. Although, we still can't see past 18" at this point again... so here are the test results to the best of my knowledge.

PH: 7.2
FC: 5ppm
CC:1.5ppm
TC: 6.5ppm
CH: 325(??) I feel this isn't accurate
CYA:20
TA: I could not get the color to change back to red regardless of droplet count... my 5-way test kit I get a reading of 130-180 (sorry for the inaccuracy in readings)

Please excuse my rookie pool mistakes, and thanks for your patience with this long winded post. I currently have 3 gallons 10% liquid chlorine available to initiate a SLAM but would love for suggestions to make this as effective as possible. I also feel like I have purchased enough other chemicals to make this happen. Really hoping to get the boys in the pool... this is their last week of summer before school starts back.

Thanks again for all the helpful info info on this site!

 

[teharder]

Okay, you have your test kit, correct? How long have you had it for? Are you sure you know how to use it? Do you know that you've cleaned most of the debris from the bottom? Because, it's biologic and will eat your chlorine so fast it will make your head spin. So, it's very important to get out as much as you possibly can. Do you vacuum to your skimmer? Next, until you get the basics of PH, Alkalinity and Calcium Hardness within range your pool will not clear. Obviously Alkalinity is clearly a problem. With that much acid it should at least be measurable. That has to be known. You're going to need some Borax to get that PH up (like 5 boxes of 20 mule team Borax to start with). That's way too low. Have you put anything else from the pool store in the water? You know, like algicides or flocculants...anything else? Please specify them completely. Please carefully retest everything today. Test your CYA but it's not critical right now. We need accurate readings on the PH and Alkalinity and also your Calcium Hardness. Let's make sure on your chlorine levels too.

 

[domct203]

Okay, you have your test kit, correct? How long have you had it for? Are you sure you know how to use it? Do you know that you've cleaned most of the debris from the bottom? Because, it's biologic and will eat your chlorine so fast it will make your head spin. So, it's very important to get out as much as you possibly can. Do you vacuum to your skimmer? Next, until you get the basics of PH, Alkalinity and Calcium Hardness within range your pool will not clear. Obviously Alkalinity is clearly a problem. With that much acid it should at least be measurable. That has to be known. You're going to need some Borax to get that PH up (like 5 boxes of 20 mule team Borax to start with). That's way too low. Have you put anything else from the pool store in the water? You know, like algicides or flocculants...anything else? Please specify them completely. Please carefully retest everything today. Test your CYA but it's not critical right now. We need accurate readings on the PH and Alkalinity and also your Calcium Hardness. Let's make sure on your chlorine levels too.

I'm sorry, but this post is full of misconceptions and ill advice.

An accurate CYA level is most certainly critical right now, as that will determine the proper FC level to SLAM Process the pool.

[FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

The reported pH of 7.2 is perfect for a SLAM.

The reported CH of 325 is not an issue if the CSI is between -0.6 to 0.6

TA may be a bit high, but that is the last item to be addressed.

I do agree that it is best to remove as much debris as possible to reduce the chlorine demand.

Right now the OP needs to focus on FC, and SLAM the pool.

 

[GenBogausch]

Thank you both for your response!! It is MUCH appreciated! I'll try and answer all the above questions just so it's out there. I received my test kit yesterday while I was at work. I was unable to get to the pool until last night. The test results I posted above are from my TF-100 which were gathered last night prior to posting the thread. I am confident That I know how to use the test kit,etc. I will say the only test that I'm NOT exactly sure on would be the TA. (I understand how to complete the test, my confusion comes with the color changes). Where as directions state the solution should turn from green to red, , mine turn from green to blue to yellow- then clear. Not back to red. I understand that this is normal With high chlorine present. (As stated in directions supplied with my TF-100 test kit). I will need practice on this, but otherwise I feel pretty confident in my results.

On to the debris... I feel all the large debris (leaves etc., are gone) what is left seems more of dead/dying algae. Slimy hoop pretty much.

Keeping in mind this all began August 3rd. During this first week after scooping,bleaching etc., (and prior to my new knowledge) I DID put in algeacide( I can find brand and % if needed. It was a $25 bottle purchased from Academy) we also did do a floc treatment with Leslie's brand Super Floc. Followinfnthose treatments the pool had been vacuumed to waste multiple times. I have probably lost/replaced enough water that I could have drain/refilled in the beginning. Sorry if that makes no sense. (Also keep in mind these were added prior to finding this wonderful website �&#56841

Since the first week of messing with this thing there has been no other outside pool store chemicals added. CYA was first added the second week of Aug. (2.6lbs) this was done in hopes to hold some chlorine and was done once I thought the pool was "clear" enough to add. I now know it was a waste after backwashing multiple times. So, after the extremely low CYA reading last Friday on. 8/18 (this is where the "roughly 2lbs CYA" was added). Pool has only been. Ackwashed once since this addition. Only thing added (with the exception of Muriatic acid,CYA as stated above) is bleach.

After posting those results last night, I added 1/2 gal 10% liquid chlorine from Lowes to keep at a higher level while I waited for a response and well, went to bed.

Reaults this morning at 8:00am:

PH:7.5 (last nights reading was done under lights so we will go with today's as much more accurate)
FC:8ppm
CC:1.5ppm
TC:9.5ppm
CH:325-375ppm
TA: using TF-100 I'm guessing 200+
Using generic 5-way I get 160-180ppm
These results were both from this AM
CYA:20-30ppm

All of these results are from the TF-100 (TA was done with both)


I have read/reviewed the SLAM process, FC/CYA Chart multiple times prior to posting so I atleast had an overall understanding. After doing so, this was my reasoning in attempting to raise CYA. Should I add more? Or give it more time? (My plan was to add more after using pool math to determine correct amount).

If needed I can post a pic of the water... and what appears to be the areas that still contain dead/dying algae. Anything that comes out is more of a slimy, white goopy substance.

Is it a bad idea to vacuum using recirculate? I have the standard Intex vacuum with the small debris bag to catch any foreign matter. (It's not the greatest but it's what I have to work with at his point. Will be upgrading next summer)

Thanks again for the responses!

 

[domct203]

For a SLAM a CYA of 30ppm is perfect.

When you measure CYA, do so outside on a bright sunny day, with your back to the sun, reading the view tube at about waist level in your shadow. It is important to give the CYA mix time to develop, I will mix the reagent & pool sample, gently shake the mix for 30 seconds or so, then let it sit for 30-60 seconds. I will then gently shake another 15-30 seconds before I start putting the sample into the view tube. When I do the test, I will fill to the first line on the vial (100), then quickly glance for the dot. If I still see the dot, I fill to the next line (90) and again glance for the dot. I keep doing this until I can no longer see the dot while glancing for it, and that will be my reading. Don't stare for the dot or your eyes will play tricks on you and you will think you see the dot. Also, you can always pour the sample back into the mixing bottle and repeat the test multiple times with the same sample to get confident with your result.

While the CYA test is tricky, you'll get the hang of it after a few tries. Once you have a good CYA number you can move onto SLAMming the pool. The most important parts of a SLAM is to Maintain that FC level, and to brush often.

Once the SLAM is completed by meeting the three criteria to end the SLAM, we can adjust whatever else may be needed.

No more flocculants, clarifiers, or other pool potions. That is probably the reason for the 'goop' you are finding in the vacuum bag. That should really be vacuumed to waste (the 'goop' residue).

Right now bleach, determination & patience is what you need to fix this. I would lower pH to 7.2 with muriatic acid before starting the SLAM. Muriatic acid can be found in the paint section of home improvement stores. Just be sure to read the label and look for 31.45% acid. Avoid the 'green' muriatic acid, it's half the strength for the same $$.

 

[GenBogausch]

For a SLAM a CYA of 30ppm is perfect.

When you measure CYA, do so outside on a bright sunny day, with your back to the sun, reading the view tube at about waist level in your shadow. It is important to give the CYA mix time to develop, I will mix the reagent & pool sample, gently shake the mix for 30 seconds or so, then let it sit for 30-60 seconds. I will then gently shake another 15-30 seconds before I start putting the sample into the view tube. When I do the test, I will fill to the first line on the vial (100), then quickly glance for the dot. If I still see the dot, I fill to the next line (90) and again glance for the dot. I keep doing this until I can no longer see the dot while glancing for it, and that will be my reading. Don't stare for the dot or your eyes will play tricks on you and you will think you see the dot. Also, you can always pour the sample back into the mixing bottle and repeat the test multiple times with the same sample to get confident with your result.

While the CYA test is tricky, you'll get the hang of it after a few tries. Once you have a good CYA number you can move onto SLAMming the pool. The most important parts of a SLAM is to Maintain that FC level, and to brush often.

Once the SLAM is completed by meeting the three criteria to end the SLAM, we can adjust whatever else may be needed.

No more flocculants, clarifiers, or other pool potions. That is probably the reason for the 'goop' you are finding in the vacuum bag. That should really be vacuumed to waste (the 'goop' residue).

Right now bleach, determination & patience is what you need to fix this. I would lower pH to 7.2 with muriatic acid before starting the SLAM. Muriatic acid can be found in the paint section of home improvement stores. Just be sure to read the label and look for 31.45% acid. Avoid the 'green' muriatic acid, it's half the strength for the same $$.

Thank you very much! This was exactly the answer I was looking for. When measuring my CYA the first few attempts I was indeed staring, going cross eyed etc., this morning I proceeded to do it as you mentioned above with sun to my back and glancing. So I feel pretty good about the level of 30ppm.

I do have Muriatic acid on hand that was purchased from Lowes. It is 31.45% and not the "green". I will add this, vacuum to waist. Brush,brush brush and attempt a SLAM. All while attempting to maintain my sanity.

I would also also like to add my pump has been running 24/7. I also noticed after ordering the new pump/sand filter system that the skimmer basket is attached to the pump. My pool does not have a side wall skimmer. So apparently my basket is for looks only at this point. Going to need to modify that next summer. Is this a big deal? I never thought of it when ordering considering I ordered the Intex brand sand filter system and pump to go to my Intex pool. ( not the Cadillac of brands but the price was what I could shell out at the moment)

Thanks again!

 

[lightmaster]

A confident CYA of 30ppm is perfect for a slam, enough to keep the sun from burning off the chlorine too fast, but not so much you need outrageous amounts of chlorine to keep FC up. Also, while slamming, your FC will be above 10ppm, and the pH test is not accurate at that point, and will give a false high reading. So, test your pH and lower it to 7.2, then start your slam and don't test pH again until your slam is over. In fact, while slamming, don't worry about testing anything but FC, not even CC, as we know that will be high anyway and you dont need to waste your reagents. Test your FC every few hours, but no more often than once an hour, and keep your FC at the shock level the whole time. The more diligent you are about keeping your FC up, the quicker the slam is. If you can, teach your spouse to test the FC and how to pour the bleach in so she can keep the FC up while you're at work.

 

[domct203]

I love my Intex! I mounted a Hayward through-wall skimmer in my pool, one of the best things I ever did. There is a link to my skimmer install thread in my signature. What a difference the skimmer makes with keeping the pool clean of debris.

 

[GenBogausch]

A confident CYA of 30ppm is perfect for a slam, enough to keep the sun from burning off the chlorine too fast, but not so much you need outrageous amounts of chlorine to keep FC up. Also, while slamming, your FC will be above 10ppm, and the pH test is not accurate at that point, and will give a false high reading. So, test your pH and lower it to 7.2, then start your slam and don't test pH again until your slam is over. In fact, while slamming, don't worry about testing anything but FC, not even CC, as we know that will be high anyway and you dont need to waste your reagents. Test your FC every few hours, but no more often than once an hour, and keep your FC at the shock level the whole time. The more diligent you are about keeping your FC up, the quicker the slam is. If you can, teach your spouse to test the FC and how to pour the bleach in so she can keep the FC up while you're at work.

Thank you! I will for sure re-test PH prior to slamming. 7.5ppm was actually the highest reading I have seen. It has been prior to that 7.2ppm with no fluccuations. I'm guessing maybe the change was due to the 1/2 gal of bleach I put it late last night around 1am. Retested levels this AM at 8am. ((Been at work since))

i think my husband has about lost his patience with the pool, so I have taken the chemistry role as my job. He is a great pool boy and helps with the vacuuming etc., considering the pool wall reaches armpit area on myself it makes it a little hard to reach the center of the pool. He's great help but I think he will be sitting out on the testing part . Unfortunately we both work a lot and won't have a complete day free until Saturday to start the SLAM process. But saturday AM IT WILL be happening. So continued patience and cleaning until then.

- - - Updated - - -

I love my Intex! I mounted a Hayward through-wall skimmer in my pool, one of the best things I ever did. There is a link to my skimmer install thread in my signature. What a difference the skimmer makes with keeping the pool clean of debris.

Awesome, I will for sure check it out! I do love the pool, just not the water at this point. And my fault for not draining it and starting fresh. Hard lesson learned. But atleast I know how to clean a swamp now!! ��

 

[GenBogausch]

Thank you all for your input. I will keep this all in mind and post questions as needed. I do have a picture of the pool prior to attempting to clean. Maybe at the end of this saga I can post a before/after pic simply for your entertainment. Or simply as a teaching tool for others as a "What not to let your pool look like". (If I could get over the embarrassment of how dirty it truly was haha). In our defense we currently own & operate a 13acre, 60+ head Boer Goat ranch, going through a home remodel, all while raising our 3 crazy boys and doing the normal work thing .

 

[lightmaster]

Also, since you have a vinyl pool, Gen, you don't need to worry about CH much either. There's no minimum level for you, so don't ever add any CH increasers. To high can cause scaling, so avoid it getting too high by not adding any to a vinyl pool.

 

[GenBogausch]

I would like to reiterate the fact that I did convert this pool to Saltwater.... that being said, for those saying the CYA level of 30ppm is fine to complete a SLAM, is this correct?? Or am I reading the FC/CYA chart wrong? Is my 30ppm CYA level okay or should I target a CYA level of 60-70 prior to SLAM? Just wanted to clear that up before I SLAM on Saturday. If I need to bring it up, I could add the CYA this evening and let it sit prior to Saturday.

Just wanting to make sure everything thing in line that needs to be prior to the SLAM.

Thanks!

 

[jblizzle]

Much of the inaccurate advice that was resulting in confusion was moved HERE. Other non-value-added posts were removed. jblizzle

 

[mknauss]

To SLAM you essentially treat your pool as a NON-SWCG pool. All pools have salt in them, that is not what makes the difference in the FC/CYA chart. The difference is when you are using a SWCG, which during a SLAM you do not need to use.

A SWCG adds chlorine in a relatively constant stream over a longer period of time. That is why it has a different FC/CYA relationship over once a day dosing of liquid bleach.

Take care.

 

[GenBogausch]

To SLAM you essentially treat your pool as a NON-SWCG pool. All pools have salt in them, that is not what makes the difference in the FC/CYA chart. The difference is when you are using a SWCG, which during a SLAM you do not need to use.

A SWCG adds chlorine in a relatively constant stream over a longer period of time. That is why it has a different FC/CYA relationship over once a day dosing of liquid bleach.

Take care.

Thank you. That clears it up then. Lol not sure why I didn't catch that to begin with! Can't wait to slam & clear this mess up. Until then, you can all find me poolside Vacuuming and sweeping...

 

[ta2dwonderwoman]

I notice on your signature line that you are using the gallons noted on the box of the 22ft round intex of 10,500 ... I found that if I input into pool math that my pool is 22ft, round and avg depth of 48 inches (the height they give is clear to the top, we only fill to around 48 inches or so to get to the seam) that it shows my pool has approx. 11400 gal, which seems to be panning out as I use that as my start off point for all math and it gives expected results...you might check that. just measure what your depth is and use that with your 22ft round info and see what it tells you ... makes a difference in your chemicals I think - clear at the bottom when it says "estimating pool volume"

Estimating pool volume
A wide by long by deep rectangular oval round (ignores length) pool holds .
If the depth varies, use the average depth of the pool. A good approximation is the shallow end depth plus the deep end depth divided by two. Irregularly shaped pools can be approximated by estimating the average length and width and using rectangular.

 

[lightmaster]

I notice on your signature line that you are using the gallons noted on the box of the 22ft round intex of 10,500 ... I found that if I input into pool math that my pool is 22ft, round and avg depth of 48 inches (the height they give is clear to the top, we only fill to around 48 inches or so to get to the seam) that it shows my pool has approx. 11400 gal, which seems to be panning out as I use that as my start off point for all math and it gives expected results...you might check that. just measure what your depth is and use that with your 22ft round info and see what it tells you ... makes a difference in your chemicals I think - clear at the bottom when it says "estimating pool volume"

Estimating pool volume
A wide by long by deep rectangular oval round (ignores length) pool holds .
If the depth varies, use the average depth of the pool. A good approximation is the shallow end depth plus the deep end depth divided by two. Irregularly shaped pools can be approximated by estimating the average length and width and using rectangular.

On the contrary, my Coleman pool claims a hair over 6000 gallons, but my measurements inputted into PoolMath says my pool is 6700 gallons, and my chemical additions back up the PoolMath volume. Definitely best to use a tape measure to find your true depth and calculate it yourself with PoolMath.

 

[ta2dwonderwoman]

pretty much what I suggested I think I have the same pool as OP, but that does not mean that they fill to the same level, so they need to measure, input the info and verify gallons with pool math

 

[GenBogausch]

Thank you both. I will clean up my signature this evening. I know I put an approx gallons as listed because I had trouble finding my exact pool size on the manufactures website. (I know crazy right??) it is stamped on the side of my pool so I will double check. To make matters even more complicated.... get ready..... my pool is on a lean. We have an unintentional "deep" end and "shallow" end. Thanks to a bad job of installation. (Pool was filled and drained then refilled last summer to fix the problem and it ended up shifting again). So for sure it will come down and be reassembled next summer in a new location after remodel is complete. I will get a measurement of average inches of fill height etc., and update.

 

[ta2dwonderwoman]

the main purpose of getting the gallons right is so that your math in the pool math section will be accurate and give the expected results...if you go with 10,500 and it is actually 11,400 it may not give the expected result, which can make you wonder if all of this tfp stuff is hocus pocus....but I promise it is all good info, but only if the info you work with is accurate you will get there with these folks, they are brilliant!