borjis
LifeTime Supporter
can you post a photo of where it connects on the motor?
That actually sounds like a bonding connection, not ground.
That actually sounds like a bonding connection, not ground.
Water gives electrical shock and heater doesn't stop heating...are both connected:
- Thread starter BradRose
- Start date
Here's a series of pics that show how things are hooked up...
.
- - - Updated - - -
I saw this wire was broke off..but didn't know where from..should it be connected to the ground on the GFI?
borjis
LifeTime Supporter
That metal pipe "appears" to be your water bond.
Strange they used twisted wiring and not solid copper 8 gauge wired
that is called for in bonding.
At the very least you should shut off the power and clean the connections
to shiny/new looking for solid contact.
Strange they used twisted wiring and not solid copper 8 gauge wired
that is called for in bonding.
At the very least you should shut off the power and clean the connections
to shiny/new looking for solid contact.
If that is the third picture from the bottom you are talking about then that is not a proper grounding technique
Here is a clamp that should cover your needs, it covers pipe sizes 1-1/4 to 2". There are other sizes available if that is not a correct presumption
Blackburn Bronze Ground Clamp 1 1/4 - 2 in.-J2BB-B1-5 - The Home Depot
clamp it to the pipe and then attach the ground wire to it.
BTW all those connections look dodgy and definitely needs cleanup/retermination at a minimum...
That all looks a little sketchy. I recommend that you have an electrician check everything to make sure that it's done correctly and safe.
Are grounding bars available to buy at places like Home Depot or similar? I tried cleaning this one with a wire wheel, but I have no screws to fit it as the old ones broke off inside...
What type of wire is 8 gauge? Is it the same as the wiring from the house that feeds the hot tub..but just a single strand?
- - - Updated - - -
What type of wire is 8 gauge? Is it the same as the wiring from the house that feeds the hot tub..but just a single strand?
Yes they do in the electrical section, this one should work for you
Eaton 5-Terminal Ground Bar Kit-GBK5CS - The Home Depot
Or if you need a larger one
Eaton 10-Terminal Ground Bar Kit-GBK10CS - The Home Depot
8 gauge or otherwise known as 8 AWG (American Wire Gauge) is the identifier for the size of the wire, the larger the number the smaller the wire. It relates to the current capacity of the wire, the more current , the larger the wire.
Wire Gauges - Current Ratings
Stranded vs. solid conductors is the make up of the wire. Stranded is more flexible and therefore easier to pull through conduits. Solid conductors are preferred for power and grounding work because of cost and it is easier to make solid and tight connections. Here is a good article if you are interested
Solid Vs. Stranded Copper Wire | Techwalla.com
I got these clamps and ground bar today.
Can I just use a piece of wiring that I have extra of ( same stuff I am using on the hot tub )..?
- - - Updated - - -
OK, I can no longer upload pictures...Even ones as small as 32KB
Can I just use a piece of wiring that I have extra of ( same stuff I am using on the hot tub )..?
- - - Updated - - -
OK, I can no longer upload pictures...Even ones as small as 32KB
You can use imgur to host your pics, copy the IMG code, paste it in your post to display the pics.
Or, even better, to be able to upload more pics and lots of fringe benefits, CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
Or, even better, to be able to upload more pics and lots of fringe benefits, CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
One thing of note, I believe in Canada #6 AWG solid copper bond wire is required where as the US requires #8 AWG. I am not 100% sure on that but it's worth looking into. I've never preformed electrical work in Canada but I am licensed in NJ and I hear this topic come up at NFPA meetings from time to time.
As has already been said, if you're feeling a shock when touching the water and the earth you have a major issue that should warrant calling a professional for inspection and repair. If the GFCI is not tripping either it is defective, wired incorrectly or the leakage current is less than 6 mA. It's also a potential indication that there is no bonding ring or grid installed around/below the spa. You can get a plug in style GFCI tester which would allow you to verify the GFCI receptacle itself. None of that would pass an electrical inspection around my parts.
As has already been said, if you're feeling a shock when touching the water and the earth you have a major issue that should warrant calling a professional for inspection and repair. If the GFCI is not tripping either it is defective, wired incorrectly or the leakage current is less than 6 mA. It's also a potential indication that there is no bonding ring or grid installed around/below the spa. You can get a plug in style GFCI tester which would allow you to verify the GFCI receptacle itself. None of that would pass an electrical inspection around my parts.
Good point, yes Canada's electric code is a bit stricter than some of the US electric code. I did not notice OP was in Canada.
OP,
I probably already said it, but I'll say it again, I 100% agree that you need a licensed electrician familiar with electric code requirement for swimming pools in your area to at least inspect your work if not perform it.
OP,
I probably already said it, but I'll say it again, I 100% agree that you need a licensed electrician familiar with electric code requirement for swimming pools in your area to at least inspect your work if not perform it.
GFI plug in tester shows all GFI receptacles working at that side of house as well as the hot tub itself. I bought two new copper clamps to bond the water at the metal/chrome tubes that carry water through the motor/heating unit as the old braided wiring and connectors were loose and corroded. I also bought a new copper grounding bar to attach all wiring to as it was also corroded.
I have a voltage tester ( pen style ) I was going to use to test the water when repairs are complete and keep testing over a few days.
I appreciate your feedback and will keep everyone posted. I can't work on anything for a few days, so any other suggestions are welcome.
If I still have an issue with current, I was going to disconnect the heater and test again as the heat was getting hotter than it should.
Keep in mind the stray current may be from outside the hot tub hence the reason for the bonding ring or grid below the tub so the earth is at the same potential as the water and other pool equipment. This can be the result of broken or undersized grounding conductors in the electric grid and from harmonics created by switching power supplies. If you don't have a bonding ring, you might want to consider installing one to deal with stray voltage.
At a minimum I would replace any of that stranded wire in the grounding and bonding path with solid wire. The reason for this is because stranded wire will corrode away completely from the inside out and the jacket on stranded wire makes the issue worse. Solid copper ground bars would be preferred but tin plated copper is also acceptable. Make sure any clamps or connectors you use are listed for the purpose, generally I'd stay with CU/AL listed as they're pretty well good for joining any metals.
At a minimum I would replace any of that stranded wire in the grounding and bonding path with solid wire. The reason for this is because stranded wire will corrode away completely from the inside out and the jacket on stranded wire makes the issue worse. Solid copper ground bars would be preferred but tin plated copper is also acceptable. Make sure any clamps or connectors you use are listed for the purpose, generally I'd stay with CU/AL listed as they're pretty well good for joining any metals.
Ok, this is new. Short story..Father in law 'fixed' my hot tub cover when I was away...Fixing involved screws UNDER the cover! Never noticed until I took the cover clean off and turned upside down.
Would this cause current in the water if I had a grounding issue? Loose or corroded cables, grounding bar etc?