When is automation a good idea?

[dsm1212]

We are planning a new inground pool install in july. Fiberglass, Pentair mostly with vs pump, swg and an aquacal heat pump, lights, maybe a waterfall. Currently including automation, but do I need it? I mean can't the SWG and heat pump be configured to run at the same time as the VS pump? Or is that a pain to keep in sync?

steve

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

Welcome to TFP... A Great resource for all automation confused pool owners...

Unless a pool is very complex, no one "needs" automation. But automation does provide several advantages, especially when using a variable speed pump and a SWCG...

Here is a blurb that I generally use when that question is asked....

Many people have pools without automation and they work just fine. I do, however, think it is important to know the advantages and the disadvantages of having an automation system.

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as landscape lights. (The EasyTouch has 8 (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allow you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

If I gave you an automation system and you used it for a couple of weeks, and then asked for it back, I'm pretty sure that I'd have a fight on my hands..

One additional word of advice.. you say you are have a Pentair vs pump installed, but you did not say which one. The IntelliFlo is designed to be controlled by the EasyTouch, but the SuperFlo is not. Do not let you pool builder install a SuperFlo vs pump, as you will not be happy with the results.

Ok, an additional, additional word... Make sure you SWCG is rated for 2 x the volume of your pool... This is because SWCG's are rated at running 24/7 at 100%, something you generally do not want to do.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[dsm1212]

Wow, great response Jim! Several things I didn't know and I'll take all your advice .

It is an intelliflo VS pump and he has quoted the Intellichlor 20. The pool is the Leisure Riviera 30. There is some contention on the water volume of this pool even from the manufacturer. Near as I can tell it is actually 12-12.5K gallons. I think the 20 should be just ok? I didn't ask the PB for screenlogic but maybe I should. Is that something I can add later or will it void my pentair warranty if I install it?

thanks

steve

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

ScreenLogic is a Pentair product, costs less than $400, and is a pretty easy DIY install.. If I can do it so can you...

Being in Mass... I suspect the IC20 will work for you. If you were somewhere where it gets blistering hot in the middle of the summer, then it would not work as well.

Any extra money you spend on automation will be forgotten soon after the pool is built..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[GDN]

+1 on Jim's comments. He covers the automation well. Your question is do you need it? To get real technical, no one needs it because it didn't even exist a few years back, it keeps improving and making life easier. Get your PB to break out the cost, evaluate what it can and can't do for you and see if that is a win. It makes controlling everything together easy. If you had a spa it makes life very easy because you can go to spa mode and set the heat without going out on a cold winter day to fire it up or worse shut it down after you get out, you are wet, and it's cold outside.

It can still deliver value however as long as you have control valves put on the waterfall or any other water circuit, you can then add timers to them or turn them on and off at set times or do it remotely (with ScreenLogic). It will make programming the speed and run times of your pump very easy, but if you set those and don't change them often, then maybe you don't need an easier way than doing it at the pump. It will offer very nice remote control of your lights.

The part I agree with for sure is that if you spend the money on the automation, for sure add the ScreenLogic. You can add that later, it is the easiest of the installs, but if your PB offers a fair price adding it up front is a nice thing to have. It will give you a much better interface than the small LCD panel and screen on the automation panel and it will give you access from your smart phones, while in the house or anywhere you are with an internet connection.

 

[dsm1212]

Ok, I'm pretty much sold. If I put the equipment away from the house where will the automation box be mounted? On a custom board with a couple of posts? Or could it be on the other side of the pool on the house? I'll probably put some fence around the equipment after it is done but it won't be there when the pool is installed.

steve

 

[GDN]

The boxes are somewhat weather resistant, and mine is mounted on the side of the house, but I'd want it protected a little more than just on an open board at the pad. I'd put some sort of covering over the top of it. The low voltage cables to the pump and automated valves are only about 10', maybe 12', so you'll have to be in that distance.

 

[Jimrahbe]

DSM,

The ET needs to be at, or very close to, the equipment pad.

The one at my house is under the roof line, but I have two others mounted in the open, at the pads, and I have not seen any evidence of water leaking inside at all.. The are both about three years old.

Jim R.

 

[dsm1212]

Ok, I figure in the winter I'll tarp the equipment. When in use I was just going to have a privacy fence to hide it (no cover). The pentair quad cartridge filter is kind of tall to work on and I think to cover it I'd have to have a liftable cover or a full building. Plus I don't think I can cover the heatpump so I was just going to leave everything open to the sky. Does anyone sell a nice looking box in the US with a liftable cover? I googled and only found them in australia for some reason.

steve

 

[Rossterman]

One other major benefit if you have the wireless controller (what I would recommend) is you can control it anywhere you are.

Want the spa heated up and ready when you get home from work? Turn it on from your cell phone at the office and wallah, its all ready when you get home.

Want to know if the kids have friends over and a pool party while your out of town? Just look on your cell phone to determine what is running and wallah, you know whats going on.

Want the party to be over? Turn everything off from your cell while out of town and you'll likely get the kids calling "wondering" why the pool just "died".....��

 

[dsm1212]

Regarding my question: "Does anyone sell a nice looking box in the US with a liftable cover?"

Unless sanity prevails I have slippery sloped into looking at pool houses. Maybe with a bar like this:

https://www.homesteadstructures.com...ound_images/public/IMG_0554.JPG?itok=Pj_YcqOp

Equipment will be in back, except for heatpump which will have to be outside. Any comments on using one of these for the equipment or having a bar by the pool? I'll probably mount a tv on the wall.

 

[GDN]

If you've got the room and money for it - I think that would be a great addition to a yard with a pool. I'd like to have my equipment completely enclosed and a bar and place for a TV would be very nice.