New to TFP! Metal issues

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1. What is AA? I added Muriatic Acid last Monday.
2. Metal Magnet and Sparkle Up. Do not have the containers so I don't know what is in them.
3. Yes we use antifreeze (pink stuff, that is pool safe) in the lines and yes its flushed into the pool. Same way we do it every spring.
4. Nothing with MPS that I am aware of. Just the 2 products I listed.
 
I blow 5-6 gallons of antifreeze back into my pool every year, and never have this kind of issue. I'm sure it uses up a little chlorine, but not much.
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Yeah, I know it's inevitable that some will get in the pool, but you know some companies just do things different. I'm even curious to know (if possible) what kind of antifreeze they used. Some people forget (or chose not) to use pool/RV antifreeze. Might be tough to really know chemically what is happening.
 
Used the pink antifreeze from Lowes for pools. Just don't understand why we have done the antifreeze this way for 5 years & never a problem. Haven't added ascorbic acid this season. I did lay a tablet on the steps just to confirm iron stain.
Just checked FC=2. CC are above 20 (I stopped counting).
Husband said he added 3 gallons when he closed the pool. Would 3 gallons diluted in 15k really cause this problem? I've been researching it since you suggested it & i did read that propylene glycol is not compatible with oxidizers.
 
Texas Splash said:
Yeah, I know it's inevitable that some will get in the pool, but you know some companies just do things different. I'm even curious to know (if possible) what kind of antifreeze they used. Some people forget (or chose not) to use pool/RV antifreeze. Might be tough to really know chemically what is happening.
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What would they use? Surely not car antifreeze!
 
Hi there. I looked up metal magnet and its "HEDP" ( phosphonic acid with etidronic acid) the same as the sequestrant products typically recommended here. Sparkle up appears to be pure cellulose.

Lynner, some folks flush the antifreeze back into their pools without incident, but we HAVE had 3 simultaneous threads occur around the same time (late spring) in the past that a former resident chemist had tested, and where antifreeze did indeed seem to cause crazy cc spikes. Other things, such as pesticide overspray, fertilizer blow in, etc. can also cause heavy chlorine demand and subsequent high ccs. Does anything like that resonate?

Is your pool cloudiness visibly clearing at all? I'm assuming you're filtering 24/7 per SLAM Process instructions, right?

So, two issues seem to be that FC is not holding and pool remains cloudy. Logically, those two things should be related ;)

If its nascent algae, turning to white cloudiness would suggest dead algae but the filter should be clearing it at least a little every day. Also, the incredibly high cc readings lately are suspicious of another variable in play - which doesn't necessarily mean that situation A - as in Algae - isnt also still in play.

First, when you dose, with CYA stable at 50 (you reported adding 4 lbs and then getting a reading of 50 from 5 prior) in your shoes I'd dose UP - eg. maybe 24 ppm instead of 20 to see if it holds for 4 hours. Don't want you to nuke the pool but I also don't want to see you languish unnecessarily either.

Any time FC falls below the slam level, in effect you're not actually slamming. So if you dose to 20 at 8 am and if by 10 am its less than 20, for the next two hours the algae gets ahead. Sometimes that's where folks get stuck on a slam. You want it not to fall below 20. If you do this for a few days, I think you'll turn the corner, even if the FC is also fighting something chemical in the water as well.

Regarding the cloudiness, you've mentioned using the sparkle up last year and again this year. I'm actually wondering if its possible your sand is gummed up and needs a good flush. The way to tell is to remove the multiport, scoop up some sand, roll it between your fingers. If it sticks or rolls smooth, its worth a deep clean running the hose to overflowing for a while.

Hang in there and post some pictures if you're able. Sometimes seeing helps ;)
 
Yes. I'm filtering 24/7. I also have a local exterminator come 3 times a year (spring, summer & fall) to spray for wasps, ladybugs, spiders, etc. They spray my pool house AND all around the pool! they sprayed last Tuesday...the day I started SLAM
The cloudiness may look a tad bit better tonight. It's still not holding any FC tho. I backwashed filter tonight also.
I have NEVER gotten the FC up to anywhere near 20. The highest has been 8 and that was dumping twice as much than pool math had suggested :)
I will have my husband check the filter tomorrow and post pics of the water in the morning.
 
Hmmm. Wasn't it just before the slam where you reported only having .5 cc? Was it windy in your neck of the woods last Tuesday? (it was here in MI).

We've gotta get that FC to hold one way or another. But between metals, possible overspray and a bit of antifreeze, I'm liking at least a partial drain better and better.
 

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What is your water table like?

In your case it's hard to know how effective dilution will be since we can't quite work out what's going on for sure, but the partial drain should benefit you regardless to reduce metal concentration, provided there isn't any in your source water. You may still need to aggressively break down ccs to get the chlorine to hold thereafter - just not as aggressively as you're trying NOW. So you may be fine with a partial drain, or you may need to do a series of partial drains. Just wanna make sure your clear in your cost-benefit analysis that from here, its tough for me to make any reliable prediction ;)

With that said, Generally, you can safely drain to a foot in the SHALLOW end without harming a vinyl liner but you also want to refill as fast as possible to avoid leaving the vinyl exposed and the structure unsupported by the water pressure.

If you have a high water table, there are options including a "sheet method" drain where you place a large tarp over the pool, fill on top, slowly drain below - I've seen a few people do this in high water tables where there's been a desire to change all the water in a vinyl liner - generally, its never recommended to do a full change on vinyl due to risk on the walls and vinyl exposure. If you decide you need to go that route I will try to dig up a thread from last year on a poster who did it this way.

You might have a better chance of predicting success with some kind of bucket test. Eg. Fill a 5 gallon bucket of water, dose with the equivalent of 20 ppm, and see how much/how long it takes to get the ccs gone and the FC to hold. You could compare with a second, diluted bucket. Just a thought.

With the metal accumulation you've reported the last 3 yrs of six if I recall, the only thing that concerns me a bit is whether you're municipality does have periodic iron in its water. Have you ever had your source water tested? Then again, we know that for your first 3 years, you didn't have any metal staining, so if it does, its likely low levels.
 
We are on a well so I will be having (clean) water hauled in. Talked to my brother in law who installs pools. He said don't drain below our bottom step. According to my calculations, we will be replacing 2/3 of the water.
Now....I will want your advice on what to do for start up. We have a SWG already installed, just haven't used it yeto (was waiting to get this issue resolved). Shou k do I start a new thread, or continue on this one.
 
Start-up after refill will be fairly standard, although you'll still need to SLAM to ensure any residual product(s) and CCs are eliminated. It should work much better this time. You would do as follows:
- Once filled, test/adjust pH to 7.2.
- Test your CYA and let us know what you get. It should be quite low, but it would be good to know for sure.
- Increase FC only to "10". Don't add any CYA yet to ensure the FC will now hold after a 10-minute test. It should hold much better, to at least 5-10 after 10 minutes. If for some strange reason it doesn't (which I doubt), repeat until it does.
- Once you confirm the FC holds closer to 10 after 10 minutes, increase FC to "12". If your CYA was below 30, add only enough stabilizer to get the CYA to 30.

You are now is our standard SLAM mode, with a CYA at about 30 and FC at "12". The bleach (FC) should be MUCH more predictable and hold much better. Extremely high CCs should be a thing of the past. Maintain the FC of 12 as much as you can until you pass the 3 SLAM criteria as noted on the SLAM page (link below).

We look forward to hearing back after your water exchange, seeing predictable test results, and wishing you much success. I know this has been an exhausting last few days.

PS - After the SLAM is complete, if your SWG is operating properly, we'll guide you to adjusting the CYA and FC in preparation for the SWG to take-over FC production. :)
 
Lynner, I think for continuity staying with this thread makes sense.

Once you've filled, slammed at low/no cya and confirmed FC is holding well, then add CYA to TFP swg reccs, and I would consider a startup dose of sequestrant (Jacks Purple for swg, which works better in salt and cleans the cell) thereafter before starting the swg and after adding the salt. Salt can carry trace amounts of iron, and while your current metal concentration will be 1/3 rd of what it is now, we'll want to bear that in mind.

Then you should be good to go!
 
***UPDATE*** I did not look at the pool since Monday (worked 12 hours yesterday). I just looked at it and I can see the deep end! I checked my chlorine and have FC 1 but my CC are down to 4. It might be coming around. I work a 12 hour shift again today, so I think I will start to try & SLAM tomorrow? I did not check my CYA, but I will do that before I start SLAM. What's everyone think? I really don't want to do a partial drain, but will if I need to.
 

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