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Thread: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

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    Pizza's Avatar
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    pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Hey Everybody,

    So here are my my first #'s w/ the new TF-100kit (yep I have the SpeedStir).

    The Basic test kit (from the TF-100) showed: CL .5, BR 1

    pH: 7.8
    FC: 2.5ppm
    CC: 0.5
    TC: 3.0ppm
    CH: 875
    TA: 170
    CYA: 60

    Normally I would add acid to bring the pH down some before adding chlorine, but these other #'s I have never had before so what's the first next step.

    Currently the water is pretty darn clear, a little easily brushed greenish yellowish algae here and there but not much. I have some scale at water line (makes sense now that I see the CH# for the first time).


    Thanks in advance,

    Jim

    Mod note: I put your test numbers in the post. NO worries about the info being in your intro.
    Last edited by Pizza; 05-08-2017 at 10:45 PM. Reason: apology for duplicate thread
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Bring your pH to 7.2 and keep it there to the best of your ability. The CSI really popular around here and with a CH that high you probably want to lower your pH into the "acidic" range to keep your water from percipating the calcium from solution. Not sure of everyones opinions of polymers like natural chemistrys scalefree but it works well in my experience.

    I would adjust your pH downward, then shock until you dont measure a CC.


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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Hiya Pizza

    Your numbers aren't horrible. Your FC is too low. Use this as a guide--> FC/CYA Chart Do you use a Salt Water Generator? I ask because higher CYA is a good thing (up to a point) with a SWG but not as good if you are using liquid chlorine. EXCEPT! you're in California sun and sometimes folks in the west find their FC stays around longer when the CYA is a skosh higher. Sooooooo what's the chlorine situation there? LOL

    Yup, you've got that typical California, Arizona, Nevada, etc high calcium.. The water is hard and the natural evaporation causes the calcium to concentrate more. You can manage this if you keep your pH on the lower end of suggested range.

    For the 0.5 of CCs... feh! Some pools always have a *little*, keep an eye on it and raise your FC up. Anything more than 0.5ppm calls for investigation!

    You can pour your acid in slowly over a return, brushing it also.....then a few minutes after you can add your chlorine. Don't forget to use PoolMath app to get your doses.

    Dealing with TA of 170 -->Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    When you want to report your test results, its easiest for us to read them like this:
    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA

    Bring back any new questions you have

    Maddie
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Hi Pizza,

    A couple of things to address here, but you have some Algae it looks like. We have a process to eliminate it called SLAM. It's a process of elevating your FC to an increased level and keeping it there for an extended time until all the Algae is dead, and the pool is clear. You should prepare to do this on the pool to eliminate the problem because it will get worse soon if you don't, and or become a constant issue. After checking out the ABCs and other Basics in Pool School, get familiar with the SLAM process. If you simply shock until there are no CC, it wont mean anything. Algae must be eliminated completely to start fresh. Doing this at Cya 60 isn't ideal because it will take an unreasonable amount of Chlorine. Reducing it with some water replacement would be much better, and your CH level would benefit as well.

    The high CH is an issue, but extended periods oh high pH and TA have largely caused the waterline scale. You can manage your CH level for a while, but it makes it imperative that pH is always maintained with a very close eye. If you replace some water for your SLAM to reduce Cya, it will help here as I mentioned.

    Let's talk about getting rid of your Algae problem, and then we can focus on getting your TA down and managing your pH, TA, and CH levels. It will be important with your water, but it can be dealt with. You don't mention a Salt system so I presume you don't have one. If you were a friend of mine, or this was my pool, this is the direction I would go first.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Hi Patrick_B,

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Last night I added 1gl MA, 1gl chlorine and ran filter for 3hrs.
    I have filter & Barracuda running daily 8am - 2pm

    Here are my numbers as of 7pm this evening:

    FC 4
    CC 0.5
    pH 7.2
    TA 160
    CH 1,025 (wife helped w/color changes tonight...ahem)
    Cya (did not test)

    So SLAM is recommended. Water replacement first (?) How much should I drain? Would a full refill be optimum?
    I did a full refill two summers ago when we acid-washed the surface (um, was that a mistake?)

    No, I do not have salt system (SWG is it?). You suggest I put one in after the algae is gone or just as a best advice kind of thing? I'm not against it, I just have no idea what it entails and how much it costs.

    Would putting in a water softening system for the property be of any use, or maybe even enough. That would cost more than a refill but over time might save money and trouble...?

    Thanks!
    Jim
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I normally wouldn't say do a full refill, but with your high CH it wouldn't be a bad thing. Do you know what your fill water CH is? More curious than anything.

    If you don't fully drain, I would remove enough to get you to 30 Cya, so about half the volume before SLAM. No, the acid clean wasn't necessarily a bad thing, but good overall balance will prevent the need for that in the future. Assmuing you did it for calcium scale removal.

    No need for worry about a salt system now, as you can always do that in the future. It was mentioned above, and was just making sure. Some owners have put in softeners dedicated to the pool makeup, but one for the whole house usually won't handle that, and the demand a pool witll put on it. Again, its something for later, and you can worry about pros and cons if you get seriously interested in doing so.

    Let us know when you're ready, and I will keep an eye out for you getting started.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Hey Patrick, Everyone;

    I've been grossly busy the last 9 days, so I've been managing pretty well by getting the PH down to about 7.2 and keeping the CL up with bleach and almost daily brushing. The algae is very low, but it's there. And there are some spots on the floor where it just won't brush off. The heat is coming so I need to move fast to get the CH and TA down so I can SLAM. Wow I'm starting to sound like I almost know something.... lol

    I'm about ready to do the drain/refill but it occurs to me... I don't know what kind of pump to buy or rent. I'm remembering how the pool contractor drained my pool a couple of springs ago when we did a full drain/refill and acid wash. He used two relatively small pumps and ran regular garden hoses from the pumps to a drain pip I'd had installed that does straight out to the city sewer system. I suppose I should call the city to make sure all is cool with that but I can't imagine it wouldn't be. I can easily let the CL go down to zero by simply not adding any for a day or two.

    So what are the recommendations to drain it properly?

    Thanks!

    Jim
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Go buy a cheap submersible pump from Harbor Freight.

    Down the sanitary sewer will be fine. Actually, down the storm drains is probably fine since I doubt there's much wildlife in the LA River to harm, but the neighbors may see it and call some busybody public agency....

    You can rent bigger pumps, but then you have to have a way to dispose of the water and your sewer pipes might not be able to handle it. We're talking firehouse volumes.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    cool. Thanks!
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    OK Got the pump going, should have half the water out in about an hour.

    -- ended up draining about 4/5 of the water.

    So the next step is to refill, test, correct Ph and FC, then folllow CYA/Chlorine chart and SLAM.

    Q: How do I remove the scaling on the tiles which were at/above the water line? Maybe I should have cleaned it before refilling but it's late and I want to refill by morning so I can test and get started on the SLAM.

    Thanks
    Jim
    Last edited by Pizza; 05-22-2017 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Additional thoughts
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Waterline scale can be scoured off with a pumice stone and elbow grease. Sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard X10 and leaves piles of pumice dust on the floor. Or sometimes it will soften up if you spritz it with 1:3 acid/water mix then scrub with a brush. Or just raise the water level to submerge it and keep the pH low and be patient for a few months.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    NEW NUMBERS AFTER REFILL:

    FC 0.5
    CC 0.5
    Ph 8.2
    TA 220 (198 at 18 drops but wife says that's not red, lol)
    CH 550
    CYA < 20

    CH is way down from 1,025
    CYA also down from 60

    So I will bring Ph down to 7.2 then start SLAM or do I bring CYA up to 30/40 first?

    Interesting that the TA went up from 170

    Eagerly waiting for your thoughts.

    Jim
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Get the Cya going in the dissolve process, consider it there, and start dosing FC for that level when the pH is where you want it. Good job, and glad to to see those numbers. Good job man.

    TA is high, but we have 180-200 not far from here. It will drive your pH up, but dont worry about it. If you find the FC down below 10 at some point, grab a pH and dose it back down to 7.2. No biggie, and we can hammer on the TA later. It's gonna be a lifelong battle for you just like me. TA 130 minimum here usually.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Thanks man! 56 years old and I feel like a kid who got his first good grade in chemistry class, rotf

    So I should use pool math and start the hanging sock thing with CYA powder -- target 30ppm is that right? No waiting for the Ph to come down to 7.2 first?

    "start dosing FC for that level..." meaning after Ph is down to 7.2 use the CYA/Chlorine table in the SLAM instructions?

    This is getting to be fun. I am the master of my castle!

    Jim
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Yes...get the sock going, target 30 or a touch more, and work it every chance you get. Squeeze it often and vigorously. Use the pool math for it and acid. Don't forget to plug in your correct TA, and give the acid several minutes to mix, maybe even brush a little, and start dumping the Chlorine to it.

    And yea, it feels good to know you're doing something right, with purpose, and no guesswork just HOPING it goes right this time. This will work, work well, and you'll be really thrilled when its nice and hot with a Sparkalicious pool requiring so little effort people will think you lie about how easy it is.

    This is why I like helping people like you get the pool whipped and mastered with gusto. Mucho Bueno man.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    SLAM Successful... water has never been more clear, pool has never had ---zero algae and pH has never been so stable, thanks to all who've been helping me, in particular Patrick B for taking such an interest and also Richard 320 for the tip on where to buy the sump pump I needed.

    FC 6.5
    CC 0.5
    pH 7.5
    CH 325
    TA 187
    CYA 30

    Jim
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    We'd love to see some pictures.
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Oh boy now you're asking a lot.... hope this works!

    IMG_2268.jpgIMG_2270.jpg --- Dangit, I left a leaf in there! lol
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    Re: pH 7.8, CC 0.5, FC 2.5 (TC 3.0), CH 875, TA 170, CYA 60 ... what next...?

    Looking really nice Pizza man!!

    That's what we call Sparkalicious!!!
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