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Thread: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

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    Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Can the salt sensor go bad on these things? This was installed less than six months ago. He has been reading consistently in the 3300 to 3400 range all year. Last recorded reading was 3300 on 4/28.

    This morning it read 2750:


    So I did a manual test using the Taylor kit and got 3800! How can it be off by so much?

    I added a bag of salt because I travel during the week and this red LED was concerning:



    Is my SWG defective?




    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    What are you other water test parameters? Have you checked the cell for scaling?

    Typically, when the salt cell reports a salinity level lower than actual, you either have a lot of calcium scale on the plates OR the plates are starting to lose their specialized metal coatings. Since this cell is brand new, I'm going to bet you have scale.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    See if the calibration instructions in this post can be of help. Salt
    Just be sure that you know the correct values before making any changes.
    20K gal In-ground pool with raised Spa overflowing into pool; two Jandy Sheer Descent waterfalls; Pentair IntelliTouch i7+3, IntelliChlor, IntelliPH, 3 SAM/SAL lights, Pentair FNS60Plus filter, two 1.0 HP WhiperFlow pumps, Jandy/Compool auto-valves, RayPak Heatpump, RayPak 406A LP spa heater, Polaris 360 PS Cleaner. Patio and deck lighting by Volt; Volt 600W landscaping transformer; Webber grilling station

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Hey Matt, I did the acid bath 1-2 months ago and it was clean then. My acid injector inserts right before the SWG so it should stay pretty clean.

    As for my other stats...
    (Shout out to the PoolMath beta app!!)



    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    What are you other water test parameters? Have you checked the cell for scaling?

    Typically, when the salt cell reports a salinity level lower than actual, you either have a lot of calcium scale on the plates OR the plates are starting to lose their specialized metal coatings. Since this cell is brand new, I'm going to bet you have scale.


    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Johnny,

    The temperature sensor can go bad, mine just did, and it was replaced under warranty. If the temp sensor is bad it will make the salt sensing circuit produce the wrong results..

    JamesW, provide the following test.. When I did it, all the lights flashed indicating a bad temperature sensor...


    Pressing and holding the “More” button launches the System Status Mode. When the lights finish scrolling, the percent lights indicate hours of usage in 1,000s. For example, if the 40% light lights, that indicates 4,000 hours.

    Version 3.1 on adds the ability to determine system temperature. Pressing the “More” button after the display shows 1,000s of hours of usage, will show temperature as follows:

    Lights…………….....………Temperature
    No LEDs………….…..………Below 30F
    40%..........................36 to 45F
    40% and 60%............46 to 55F
    60%..........................56 to 65F
    60% and 80%............66 to 75F
    80%.........................76 to 85F
    80 and 100%............86 to 95F
    100%.......................96 to 99F
    100% blinking……..….over 99F
    All LEDs blinking……...Sensor bad

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Thanks Jim! Running out to try this now...
    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Well, the Temp sensor seems to be working... the 80% and 100% lights were lit (I'm at 88).

    At this point would you guys attempt a Salt calibration or would you call Pentair?

    System is still reading 2750 after adding a bag of salt 2 hours ago.
    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    I'm not a huge fan of those acid injectors mainly for the fact that they are often installed before the cell, which I know is what Pentair and others recommend. BUT, the metal oxide coatings on the plates inside the cell are sensitive to pH. Very low pH can slowly remove the metal oxide coating nd, over time, cause cumulative damage to the plate coating. I would move the saddle clamp injector to a point in front of the SWG just to be safe and make sure that you regularly inspect the injection/check-valve so that there is no acid leaking into the return stream when the IntelliPH is not calling for it. Also, unless the cell has visible scale on it, it is not good procedure to acid clean it; some PBs will tell you to do it on a regular basis but that is just a recipe for reducing the cell life.

    I would do as Jim suggests and run the diagnostic procedure. Then pull the cell and visually inspect the blades. If the coating is damaged, you will see the grayish-white titanium plate as the metal oxide coating is a dark grey to black color.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2678 View Post
    Well, the Temp sensor seems to be working... the 80% and 100% lights were lit (I'm at 88).

    At this point would you guys attempt a Salt calibration or would you call Pentair?

    System is still reading 2750 after adding a bag of salt 2 hours ago.
    It takes a lot longer for the salt water to mix and homogenize. Salt saturated water is quit a bit heavier than pool water and you'll need at least 24 hours of mixing to get it to homogenize.

    Typically Pentair cells can not be field calibrated. It used to be an option in the older generation of cells but it caused too much trouble; in fact, yours is an example of the trouble it would cause. A person would get low salt, add more, chase salinity around and then just recalibrate the unit to "make it happy". That would throw off the true reading from what the unit was sensing and the conductivity of the solution would go out of spec causing burden on the power supply. SO, Pentair took the option away to keep a pool owner form really damaging things.

    If your K-1766 values do not match what the cell is telling you, then I would call Pentair and try to get a warranty replacement.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Johnny,

    Also keep in mind that the cell's test is +/- 500 ppm... per the manual.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Johnny,

    Also keep in mind that the cell's test is +/- 500 ppm... per the manual.

    Jim R.
    Thanks Jim, I'm 1200 ppm off now and I've added a bag of salt since.

    I just pulled the unit and the plates look clean to me:




    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Just an aside. My ic40 has the same issue. I did the manual salinity test too. It was 400 ppm higher than what the ScreenLogic program shows. My temperature sensor is about 2 degrees off too.



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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Update: pulling the cell obviously forced me to turn the system off - when it came back up it's now reading 4050 ppm!! All lights are green too.

    My biggest concern is that on days like today it will read low - even though it's not low - and won't produce Cl. Shouldn't have to trip the power to get a good reading....
    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Johnny,

    The cell only tests salt twice a day, unless you turn it off and then back on.. It does not test every time you look at ScreenLogic... although that is what it would do if I were king...

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    That's not a problem if readings are consistent, but it is a problem when it was reading 3300 yesterday and 2750 today and the red light is on - meaning it's not producing.

    Anyways, I would like to thank everyone for the support. I'll post back if anything changes for the worse.
    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    JR. When does it do that? I mean does it do it at start up or is just random?



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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Quote Originally Posted by The dog View Post
    JR. When does it do that? I mean does it do it at start up or is just random? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have never timed it, but it seems like every 12 hours or so. I know when you turn it on it goes through a cycle where the lights flash for about 5 minutes.. I "assume" it tests again in 12 hour increments from start up...

    Jim R.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny2678 View Post
    That's not a problem if readings are consistent, but it is a problem when it was reading 3300 yesterday and 2750 today and the red light is on - meaning it's not producing.

    Anyways, I would like to thank everyone for the support. I'll post back if anything changes for the worse.
    Johnny,

    You have ScreenLogic.. so look in the chlorinator section... The red light comes on when "low" on salt, but it still generates chlorine.. The red light is also on when "very low" on salt, in this case it does not generate chlorine.

    ScreenLogic shows the two different levels, while the red light does not..

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    At startup and then once every 12 hours of runtime.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    I have never timed it, but it seems like every 12 hours or so. I know when you turn it on it goes through a cycle where the lights flash for about 5 minutes.. I "assume" it tests again in 12 hour increments from start up...

    Jim R.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Johnny,

    You have ScreenLogic.. so look in the chlorinator section... The red light comes on when "low" on salt, but it still generates chlorine.. The red light is also on when "very low" on salt, in this case it does not generate chlorine.

    ScreenLogic shows the two different levels, while the red light does not..

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    You're correct Jim. The red light on the unit was making me nervous but ScreenLogic still reported 'low'




    14,900 Gal free-form PebbleTec/Gunnite pool/spa, built July 2015, city water, caged
    Pentair Automation Panel, Intelliflo Pump, Clean&Clear Filter, MasterTemp Gas Heater, Intellibrite 5G Lighting, ScreenLogic2, IC40 SWG
    Paramount Clean O3, In-Floor cleaning system / Solar Heating panels
    TF100 test kit

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Just to add to temp sensory complaints, I just replaced my FLOW sensor to get my SALT level to read correctly, apparently a bad integrated TEMP sensor. FLOW was reading correct. My Pentair ic40 was new last june, it ran about 9hr/day x 5 months at 40%. I drained water out and let it winter inline. Relatively mild winter but temp below freezing a handful of times if that matters. Anyway, I could not get salt level to read above 2600 after adding what i estimated to be the right amount. I just skipped the warranty process and bought a sensor on Amazon and got it reading 3350ppm immediately. Working great now. Seems like they really need to work on these temp sensor failure issues.

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    Re: Salt reading on SWG (Pentair IC40) off by >1000ppm according to Taylor test

    Interesting. I checked the salinity again today and both the swg and manual test are now the same. 3600 ppm. Does salinity fluctuate on a daily basis?



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