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Thread: Vacuuming Options to Remove Waste

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    Vacuuming Options to Remove Waste

    I have a vacuum to waste question. Cleaned off the winter cover (tarp) to find a bunch of large holes had developed and a lot of leaf glump and muck has been leaking into the pool. It was put away pristine last fall. After removal of the cover, things look nasty. Not many leaves but a lot of settled algae and dirt and gunk.

    I always see a lot of comments about vacuuming to waste when there is a lot of stuff in the pool and on the bottom but with a large pool, the water level lowers very quickly and I can only vacuum to waste to about 10 minutes before the water level lowers to the point where I need to stop and wait another several hours for the pool to fill up again. Probably 4 cycles like this so about 4 days of doing this process. Does that sound about right?

    I also don't want to run this schmutz through my sand filter which I assume is going to shorten the life of the sand even with lots of back washing.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Start SLAM now or wait for filter?

    Update:

    To be clear, I was not having an issue with my filter but I didn't want to start using it until the pool had been clear of the initial scmutz that had leaked in over the winter. We had several warm days which was enough to let the algae gain a foot hold. Vacuuming to waste is a bit of a pain on the butt with the wait time of several hours to replace the water discharged versus the few minutes you get to remove the junk and crud. I did get a bit of reprieve as we have had several days of rain and cold here so I was able to get some free water for a bit. It is supposed to remain cloudy through today (Monday) and not warm up above 60 until Wednesday. I decided on the following approach which I think is a balance between vacuuming entire bottom (several cycles of vacuum and wait for fill) to waste and the junk up your filter approach.

    1. Friday I got the pool filled enough to fire up the pump. I placed the valve to "Recirculate" to keep the filter out of the equation for now. Everything checked out equipment wise and pipe-wise.
    2. Saturday morning, I slammed the pool with 10 gals of 12% liquid chlorine to stop the algae growth and let it circulate for 24 hours. Next morning, pool had turned from a lime-green to a blue-ish color but milky/cloudy.
    3. Sunday morning, I added a bottle of algaecide and let it do its thing for 24 hours. FC is 0 but so is CC
    4. Monday (today), I am slamming the pool again with another 8 gals and going to let it circulate until this evening. I'll turn off pump and am let the particulates settle that will settle overnight.
    5. Tomorrow, I'll vacuum to waste and then start using the filter. Will add chlorine as needed.

    I'll update on the progress.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Not to be a total stickler, but you're not slamming the pool as we define it. You're just overdosing it at infrequent intervals, which is what a pool store calls a "shock". If you go to the doctor with an infection and he prescribes antibiotics to be taken twice a day for a week, do you follow directions or eat all 14 pills at once?

    10 gallons of 12.5% bleach in 25000 gallons of water takes FC up to 50! That might bleach out your liner! The sad thing is, even that high, it could also not be high enough, since you chlorinate normally with tablets and your CYA could be astronomical.

    Algaecides work better as a preventative than as a cure in the same way that wiping surfaces with lysol stops the spread of germs but drinking it won't cure a cold once you've caught it. Don't add any more. It's just wasting money.

    I urge you to pause a little and do a little reading in pool school, especially regarding Pool School - Test Kits Compared, Pool School - How to Chlorinate Your Pool, and SLAM
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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Ok I will pile on here a bit. Yes we do often discuss vacuuming to waste. But frankly that's a wasteful way to solve this problem. With gunk you need to be in there with a leaf rake or basket and remove most of it by hand. Vacuuming to waste may be beneficial here because I would not be surprised if your CYA was sky high and vacuuming to waste will help solve that problem. But the best way to solve this is remove gunk. Get CYA correct then SLAM.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    .....and to add yet more tidbits to the picture- you need to run chlorine thru that filter otherwise any algae in there will still be alive and reproducing while your slaying the algae in the pool.

    Sand doesn't wear out, so don't worry about premature ageing from the SLAM.

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Not really a good analogy with the pills as I am not infrequently adding the liquid chlorine. I did it back to back two days apart with algacide dose in between. I am checking the chlorine levels. Did you miss the part when I said the FC level was 0 after the initial dose? I added the algaecide AFTER the chlorine to do just that - prevent.

    At no point did my chlorine level rise to 50 - it rose to 20 after the 2nd dose of chlorine. It is now 10 - 12 hours later. I fully expect it to continue to fall.

    The pool has been settling now with the pump turned off and is clearing as I had hoped.

    It is my 5th season with this pool and am fully aware of the Pool School. As I indicated, I was trying to avoid running this stuff through my filter. I can only vacuum to waste for about 15 minutes before I have to stop and wait for several hours while the pool fills up so I can continue. I wanted to minimize that to 1 or at most 2 times.

    I realize that I haven't updated my sig since I started here. While I have a tab feeder, I have not used it for 4 years. Only LC. My CYA has never exceeded 80. It usually starts out at close to 0 - I'll know after it clears up and is more in balance.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Ok I will pile on here a bit. Yes we do often discuss vacuuming to waste. But frankly that's a wasteful way to solve this problem. With gunk you need to be in there with a leaf rake or basket and remove most of it by hand. Vacuuming to waste may be beneficial here because I would not be surprised if your CYA was sky high and vacuuming to waste will help solve that problem. But the best way to solve this is remove gunk. Get CYA correct then SLAM.
    The gunk can't be picked up with a rake. Mostly slime and goo that is on the bottom. My CYA has never been high.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    .....and to add yet more tidbits to the picture- you need to run chlorine thru that filter otherwise any algae in there will still be alive and reproducing while your slaying the algae in the pool.

    Sand doesn't wear out, so don't worry about premature ageing from the SLAM.

    Maddie
    I backwashed the filter when I shut down the pool last year. Basically ran backwash for the entire time I lowered the level of the pool - a good 45 minutes worth. Sand was really clean and I haven't run anything through it yet this year so I doubt there is an algae problem in the sand. While sand doesn't "wear out", it can accumulate stuff that doesn't leave completely even with back washing. I had to replace the sand in my filter after I moved in the house as it was pretty gunked up even after repeated backwashes. Previous owners didn't take care of the pool very well.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    We can help you un-gunk sand in a filter too! Deep cleaning a sand filter is pretty easy to do and much cheaper than replacing the sand.

    I'm all about saving a dime when I can so I can spend it on something far more fun!

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by bob_christenson View Post
    Not really a good analogy with the pills as I am not infrequently adding the liquid chlorine. I did it back to back two days apart with algacide dose in between. I am checking the chlorine levels. Did you miss the part when I said the FC level was 0 after the initial dose? I added the algaecide AFTER the chlorine to do just that - prevent.

    At no point did my chlorine level rise to 50 - it rose to 20 after the 2nd dose of chlorine. It is now 10 - 12 hours later. I fully expect it to continue to fall.

    The pool has been settling now with the pump turned off and is clearing as I had hoped.

    It is my 5th season with this pool and am fully aware of the Pool School. As I indicated, I was trying to avoid running this stuff through my filter. I can only vacuum to waste for about 15 minutes before I have to stop and wait for several hours while the pool fills up so I can continue. I wanted to minimize that to 1 or at most 2 times.

    I realize that I haven't updated my sig since I started here. While I have a tab feeder, I have not used it for 4 years. Only LC. My CYA has never exceeded 80. It usually starts out at close to 0 - I'll know after it clears up and is more in balance.
    While I respect your choice to manage your pool as you see fit, there is nothing here that you are doing that we would recommend. You are not SLAMing the pool.

    1,280 oz (10 gal) of 12.5% bleach will add 50ppm to your FC. It is chemically impossible to do other wise. At no time would we ever recommend that someone just dump 50ppm of chlorine into their pool without knowing the CYA level.

    What is your CYA level?

    I didn't miss any parts of your post.... it's very common for CC to be 0.0ppm in a green pool, & your FC is being consumed faster than you are adding it if you ever find it at 0.0ppm, which at that point the remaining algae is once again reproducing like jack-rabbits.

    Algaecide in a green pool is a waste of algaecide. It's like getting the flu shot after you get the flu.

    Your filter is there for a reason, to get dirty. If you deep clean the filter after a SLAM it will be as good as new.

    If you are willing to be a bit open minded about your pool care we would be glad to help you turn your pool into a crystal clear body of water. If that is something you would like to do I suggest you have another read through Pool School to freshen up on what we teach, and share a complete set of test results so we can get familiar with your pool.

    Oh yea.... we LOVE pictures!
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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post

    what is your cya level?
    cya = 0

    I am vary familiar with cleaning up a green pool as this is the 3rd time I have had to do so. My post was about trying to minimize the vacuum to waste cycles and keeping the schmutz out of the filter so I don't have to go through that pain of taking it apart and doing a deep clean.

    While I am not recommending what I am doing, so far it seems to be doing as I had hoped. This morning the pool is pretty clear with the particulate settled to the bottom. I will proceed to vacuum that to waste with one cycle and then turn on my filter. I also use skimmer sicks which seems to collect quite a bit of the stuff left that is suspended. I'll post chem readings after I get home from work.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Lots of discussion back & forth, and perhaps a "little" tension as well. In the end though, chlorine is the best sanitizer. The trick is proper balancing based on the scenario. In your case Bob, a yucky pool. Let's try this and start over:
    - A CYA of "0" is no good for two reason: The sun UV will remove FC quickly; and leaves the pool liner exposed to more intense effects of bleach. But before adding stabilizer, try this:
    Use only enough bleach to increase FC to "10". Retest in 10 minutes to see if FC held between 5-10. If not, increase with bleach to get FC back to "10" and repeat. Continue this until FC holds for 10 minutes between 5-10. Once it does that, then you know you can safely add stabilizer for a CYA target of "30" and increase FC to "12". This process will ensure your water is ready to move-forward into the SLAM with a CYA of 30 and FC of 12.
    Once you are officially in SLAM mode, it's simply a matter of maintaining. As you know, the algae will use-up chlorine rather quickly, but eventually that will slow-down if you are able to watch and retest FC frequently - especially in the early SLAM stage.

    As for the pool itself, keep the pump on to move water through all plumbing and backwash as required. The more you are able to brush/sweep the pool the better which helps to move slime & debris to the filter. At some point I also suspect a deep clean will help your filter as they tend to flatten-out inside and develop channels preventing ideal filtration. Here's the page when you're ready: Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

    Take it slow & consistent and let the bleach do its job. Oh, not sure if you already did it, but ensure the pH is adjusted to about 7.2 before you start that SLAM and increase FC to 12 (after that 10-min drill). Good luck Bob.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by bob_christenson View Post
    My post was about trying to minimize the vacuum to waste cycles and keeping the schmutz out of the filter so I don't have to go through that pain of taking it apart and doing a deep clean.
    The way to minimize waste cycles is to use your filter, that's what it is there to do. Many people have used sand filters to clean a nasty green pool and very few of them have to actually take the filter apart and do a full deep clean afterward. They just backwash the sand filter as usual and continue on. Chlorine in the filter is good because it sanitizes all the piping and filter. Sand filters are fairly robust and they like being used.
    Running your pump 24/7 to keep the solids suspended will also prevent you from having to vacuum all the crud off the bottom.



    Quote Originally Posted by bob_christenson View Post
    While I am not recommending what I am doing, so far it seems to be doing as I had hoped. This morning the pool is pretty clear...
    Hopefully that crazy high dose of chlorine didn't bleach the color out of your liner.



    We are all here trying to give you a helping hand and some honest advice. I'm sure it's frustrating to have to deal with this.

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    The way to minimize waste cycles is to use your filter, that's what it is there to do. Many people have used sand filters to clean a nasty green pool and very few of them have to actually take the filter apart and do a full deep clean afterward. They just backwash the sand filter as usual and continue on. Chlorine in the filter is good because it sanitizes all the piping and filter. Sand filters are fairly robust and they like being used.
    Like I keep saying - didn't want to do a deep clean afterwards as I have done that before and it is as much of a pain in the rear with my sand filter. Am looking for a way to minimize the vacuuming to waste. And others seem to be telling me that deep cleaning the filter should be done. Lots of conflicting advice here.

    Running your pump 24/7 to keep the solids suspended will also prevent you from having to vacuum all the crud off the bottom.
    I usually do run 24/7 - I am letting the solids settle to get them up in one pass and keep the stuff out of the filter.

    Hopefully that crazy high dose of chlorine didn't bleach the color out of your liner.
    Liner is 12 years old. The previous owners had already done a good job of bleaching the color out. As green as my pool was - fluorescent green - the chlorine was used up really quick.

    We are all here trying to give you a helping hand and some honest advice. I'm sure it's frustrating to have to deal with this.
    Folks seem to be focused on helping me clear up my pool. I know how too do that. Not frustrated with the cleanup at all. To repeat once yet again - was looking to minimize vacuuming to waste and keeping stuff out of the filter so I don't have to do a deep clean - that a several hour process with my filter plus a good chance of having to replace seals etc.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

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    Post-Winter SLAM

    Ok, so you can't scoop or rake the gunk out. So that means it has to leave by one of these options: full drain, vacuum, or skimmer.

    I assume a full drain is out of the question since you would have done it already. You have let the crud settle to concentrate it so you vacuum to waste as little as possible.

    So that leaves vacuum to the filter or skim to the filter. There isn't another way.

    Let me be more straightforward, vac to waste less = use filter more. You need to get that crud out somehow, there is no magic here.
    Nobody in this thread is telling you to deep clean your filter. We are saying to USE your filter. Use the filter until the pressure goes up 25% and then backwash it. Repeat. That's it.




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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    You just need to " MacGyver it ". Vacuume to waste, backwash hose end empties back into pool, but strains through leaf net. Of course your back wash hose is not long enough to reach back to pool, so you need to splice on your vacuum hose.

    After you get all the organic crud off the bottom and your left with cloudy water where you can't see bottom. Double up some old pillow cases and put on the end of the vacuume hose and continue on vacuume to waste and filter that way.

    Then start using you filter with a 1/3 of a cup of DE in skimmer and check your pressure often.
    19,000 gal - Vinyl IG - Sand filter -1.5hp. - Taylor k 2006 - Loop Loc cover

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post

    Nobody in this thread is telling you to deep clean your filter.
    Actually #9 and #12 comments do but that's OK.
    25K Gal L-Shape in-ground Vinyl Pool;1 bottom drain - 2 Skimmers, 1.5 HP Pentair pump, Sand Filter, Heater, Liquid Chlorine

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Post-Winter SLAM

    I agree with SamT, if you want to protect your sand filter, then add some DE and when you backwash the DE will go to waste with a minimal loss of water. Then you can add more DE and repeat. This way your sand will be protected!!!

    Felipe
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    In Sunny Monterrey,Mx!

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    Re: Vacuuming Options to Remove Waste

    Bob, to avoid further confusion and help prevent frustration back & forth about how to clear a pool (which you stated you don't need assistance with), I re-named your thread "Vacuuming Options to Remove Waste". As you've clarified, your concern is not about the TFP processes to remove algae, but more about alternatives to removing slime/waste without lengthy backwashes, sand deep cleaning, etc. Perhaps this new thread title will attract the type of replies that you prefer. Best of luck.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Vacuuming Options to Remove Waste

    Just another tip. My local rental place rents portable filter units like pool maintenance people use. These things have there own filter and pump high amount of water in a short time. Maybe a few phone calls could help solve your problem.
    19,000 gal - Vinyl IG - Sand filter -1.5hp. - Taylor k 2006 - Loop Loc cover

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