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Thread: Conversion???

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    Conversion???

    I am ready to change from Baqceil to bbb not sure how.Water is clear now no green how much bleach do I start with.
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    pabeader's Avatar
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    Re: Conversion???

    When was the last time you put any Bacqua stuff in your pool? Also, have you ever used the CDX product?
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Conversion???

    Closed pool in sept.16 put $170.00 dollars including cdx in in .Removed cover April 2 17 water clear as bell nothing added yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also added cdx last year.
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Re: Conversion???

    So, based on what I have been reading lately, I have to ask this next question. How hard, costly, safe will it be to drain and fill a good portion of your water?
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Conversion???

    Welcome to TFP! I just wanted to say I'm glad you posted here before starting the process. There have been several people having a difficult time with the process due to the CDX chemicals in their water and/or minor mistakes made at the beginning that slowed the entire process. There are a couple options ahead of you but I will let the better informed Baqua->Chlorine Experts and Guides go in to that, I just wanted to chime in to welcome you and to let you know that you are in good hands. Follow their advice and they can help you make this as quick and painless as it can be. I promise the results are more than worth it, both in water quality and savings.

    Again, welcome!
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath

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    Re: Conversion???

    When I took the cover off the water was down to 6" below the skimmer added water back to the proper level. Draining won't be to bad if needed city water has a lot of chlorine in it live close to resort beach seems like they double the chlorine level in the summer due to amount of people visiting.
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Re: Conversion???

    homeplace,

    Welcome

    First things first - if you do wish to convert then you are absolutely going to need one of the recommended test kits - either a Taylor K-2006C (the "C" designation is important) OR the TF-100 with XL option (from TFTestkits.net). Getting a SpeedStir helps make testing go faster and makes you look really cool too (in a nerdy-scientist kind of way).

    TFP has a process for Baqaucil-to-Chlorine conversion here - Pool School - Convert Your Baqua Pool to Chlorine

    One thing to note - that process was designed and developed to work with a pool that is using only the Baquacil sanitizer (PHMB) and the Baquacil oxidizer (peroxide). Since the development of that process, many of the Baquacil dealers have pushed Baqua pool owners into using the Baquacil CDX product to help stabilize oxidizer levels and make the pool more manageable (and your wallet even more lighter than it already is!). The CDX product is a formulation of a chemical called DMH (dimethylhydantoin) with some polyether diols in it to help with dispersion. DMH stabilizes the peroxide oxidizer chemical a bit allowing a Baqua user to go longer between additions and to help prevent water mold that can occur when either the sanitizer or oxidizer gets low. DMH is also found in bromine hot tubs to help stabilize bromine levels. The problem is, DMH has absolutely no use whatsoever in chlorine chemistry and only serves as another organic in the water that will cause high chlorine demand when trying to convert.

    The normal conversion process typically takes about 5-7 days and usually goes off without a hitch. Sadly, the use of the DMX chemical makes that very same process very lengthy - we've seen conversions take over 3 weeks in some instances. Now, not all of that may be attributable to the DMX because the conversion process is fairly involved and really requires a concentrated and concerted effort to measure chlorine levels and dose appropriately. In the beginning of the chlorine addition process, you could/should test and dose on an hourly basis as the chlorine will get quickly used up as it oxidizes and destroys the PHMB. So some part of these stalled conversion processes tend to be attributable to the simple fact that most people can't babysit their pools for days on end and so they let the chlorine levels drop and that just slows everything down. Then, there are also people who inadvertently listen to the bad advice at pool stores and add shock to their pool that contain cyanuric acid stabilizer which then REALLY slows down the entire process.

    There are some hints from other online forums that the CDX Baquacil pools can be more effectively converted to chlorine by first dosing the water with pure sodium percarbonate (the active ingredient in OxiClean) as the high pH and high peroxide levels generated from that dosing helps to really destroy all the organics in the pool water. Then, after the peroxide levels have come down, one then adds acid to bring the pH back down a bit and chlorine to finish off the process. Unfortunately, we have no cases here at TFP of people trying that process and so we can't advocate using it without some test case to prove that it works as other sites have suggested.

    So, your options are these -

    1. Go with the standard conversion process in the link above and hope for the best...

    2. Drain some of your pool water (leave at least 12" of water in the shallow end) and try to dilute the CDX down (a full drain is impossible with a vinyl pool)

    OR

    3. Be a guinea pig beta tester and try out the percarbonate conversion process.

    Obviously we want whats best for your pool and your wallet and we don't want you going off on any wild goose chases. We also realize that, since you are new, you have nothing to judge the benefits of chlorine by except the word of the thousands of pool owners here that switch and so even I would be reluctant to go through an unknown process. We also realize that few people want to play "junior chemistry whiz" with their pool and really, at the end of the day, just want a bucket of water to swim in. So it's really up to you and what you think is best for your pool. The switch to chlorine will save you tons of money, it's just there is going to be a lot of pain initially to get there....

    Let us know how you want to proceed.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Conversion???

    I want to go the best way .Just ordered lx kit and speedstir to go with my tf100 test kit. I will go with what you think is best. I'm retired so I'm home everyday can devote what time I need. Thank you so much for your help Tony����
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Conversion???

    Quote Originally Posted by homeplace View Post
    I will go with what you think is best.
    Oh sure, Tony, make me "the bad guy"

    Honestly speaking, if I were standing right next to you, I would totally order the sodium percarbonate and give that process a whirl. But that's me, I'm the tinkerer around here, the guy that has no hesitation in messing up a pool all in the name of SCIENCE!! I'm the kid that mixed up his own black-powder out of chemicals I found in the garage because my dad said it wasn't really a good idea...my hide got a good tanning from a very angry parent for doing it, but watching the stuff fizzle and then explode was well worth the sore bum!

    I think if you were to poll the mover & shakers here at TFP, they would advise you to take the path of least complexity and simply drain some of your pool (no more water than what is enough to leave 12" in your shallow end), refill and use the chlorine bleach conversion process. You simply have to stay-the-course and fight the BaquaGoop in a struggle to the death....you could be at it for quite some time, but it will eventually work. However, you might wind up buying enough bleach to get yourself flagged on a Homeland Security watch-list ....

    If you do go the "slow death by bleach" route, all I would ask is that you follow the process to a "T" and you keep really good records and do really frequent testing so that you maintain the proper FC levels at all times. This would help us greatly because there is some debate that the CDX product isn't really the culprit everyone says it is but it is lack of attention to detail and lack of proper, frequent dosing that slows it all down. So if you can be really meticulous about the process then that would help us to see if the CDX is really a bad actor. You potentially have a lot of it in your pool (there's no way to measure DMH levels unfortunately), so yours would be a good test case.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Conversion???

    Matt good story on the black power lol. I think I will go with the drain to 12" and refill .do I wait till pool fills back up befor staring. Also will I still have to change sand in filter when I finish thank you Tony
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Re: Conversion???

    One of the later steps in the process is to do that. But you need to go through the process steps as they are written.
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Conversion???

    Ok thank you Bob will start in the morning.Tony
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Re: Conversion???

    Water drain to 12" on the shollow end filled pool back up and turned on pump jets work but no draw in to skimmer??Trash floats by tried everything back washing still nothing.What am I not doing Tks Tony
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Re: Conversion???

    When you drained the water did you switch things around to draw from the main drain the deep end? Might just have to flip that valve back.
    22,500 gallon in ground pool with vinyl liner. DE filter. Taylor K-2006.

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    Re: Conversion???

    I did but turned it back the only way it will draw is the main drain jets work but will not draw when I go back to skimmer
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Re: Conversion???

    Starting the conversation test this am chlorine .5 ph 6.8
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Conversion???

    Can't get cya test to work still see black dot wit tube full. Tf100 test kit
    Tony- 16x32 vinyl Ig 15300 gal Hayward sand single speed 3to5 foot deep kidney shape. Built 14 years ago test kit TF 100/ speedstir

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    Conversion???

    A little late to the post but could have used the tarp method!Reducing CYA, the Tarp method and I mean for the conversion!

    Reducing CYA, the Tarp method


    7,500 gal Rectangular, Easytouch 8, Air+water temp sensors, Screenlogic2, IC40, intellibright5g color12v, Intelli pH, SD 70 filter w/Zeolit, Magicstream Laminars, waterfall. Raised Monolithic concrete lined with glass beads.

    In Sunny Monterrey,Mx!

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Conversion???

    Tha cya test means you have 0 CYA!


    7,500 gal Rectangular, Easytouch 8, Air+water temp sensors, Screenlogic2, IC40, intellibright5g color12v, Intelli pH, SD 70 filter w/Zeolit, Magicstream Laminars, waterfall. Raised Monolithic concrete lined with glass beads.

    In Sunny Monterrey,Mx!

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    Re: Conversion???

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Tivo View Post
    A little late to the post but could have used the tarp method!Reducing CYA, the Tarp method and I mean for the conversion!

    Reducing CYA, the Tarp method


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The tarp method will not work for a baquacil conversion. Homeplace did not drain the pool to reduce CYA but to reduce the amount of a baqucil product, CDX, that prolongs the conversion process. Even with a drain and refill you must go through the conversion process to eliminate any remaining baquacil in the plumbing and filter.
    TFP Moderator
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    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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