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Thread: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

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    Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    It looks like I'm going to buy a Hayward 21404t Heat Pump to replace my broken propane heater. Thankfully, Hayward doesn't require approved / licensed installation for their warranty, so I'd like to do some of it myself. My father in law is pretty handy, he used to design and build houses in the Dominican Republic, so he'll probably end up doing most of the work lol. I have an electrician lined up for that part. My biggest question / concern right now is getting the base ready. The manual states:

    "Mount the unit on a sturdy base, preferably a concrete slab or a set of blocks...The size of the base should not be less than 36 x 36""

    My current heater is only 28" x 19" and has a base of about 30" x 21". Obviously, that won't work. What do you guys thing is the best way to do the base for the new heater? My priorities are maintaining the warranty, low cost, and ease of installation.

    • Extend the existing base with additional concrete on 2 sides? I've read this will require drilling holes horizontally and installing rebar to secure them. The whole drilling sounds like it could be difficult and time consuming, and I don't have an appropriate hammer drill, so I'd have to rent (or purchase) one.
    • Extend it with blocks?
    • Trash the existing slab and create a new one in the same location?
    • Use just blocks? I could put them around the slab, or trash the slab and replace it with blocks.
    • Buy a pre-built Hurricane Pad like the one my A/C is installed on. I'm having more trouble finding them than I expected though.



    As a side note, man that's a big heat pump! It's bigger than the A/C unit for my house!
    15k gallon (?) kidney-shaped inground concrete (paint) pool & spa combo undergoing resurfacing. 6 floor jets, 2 side returns around steps, 1 skimmer also near steps. Spa has 4 jets. 1 hp Sta-Rite Supermax, 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 cartridge filter (holds up to CC200), ComfortZone gas heater - old and broken, Master Pool return distributor (not sure what to call it). Pool Before Resurface

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    I installed my heat pump last fall and used 4" thick blocks on compacted dirt. There are pics in my pool thread, link in sig. Yes, pool heaters are big! It takes a lot of heat to heat a pool.
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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    I installed my heat pump last fall and used 4" thick blocks on compacted dirt. There are pics in my pool thread, link in sig. Yes, pool heaters are big! It takes a lot of heat to heat a pool.
    cool thanks. I couldn't quite tell from the picks, did you mortar those blocks together or just leave them loose and piled up? Also, is the heater bolted in in any way or does it just sit on top?

    I'm actually thinking buying the hurricane pad may be the way to go seeing as we get hit by hurricanes here. I found a local A/C company that will sell me one for about $75. So even with renting a truck from Home Depot I should be able to get it for just over $100. I guess I'll still need to buy mounting brackets though.

    PS. You have an awesome setup! How much of it did you do yourself? I didn't read too much of the thread, but it looks like maybe everything? The cabana with solar and grill, and the outdoor bathroom are awesome. I definitely want to build an outdoor shower here at least. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble deciding where to put it because ultimately I'd like it to be used both for after the pool and after the beach, but that means one or the other will require an inconvenient walk.
    15k gallon (?) kidney-shaped inground concrete (paint) pool & spa combo undergoing resurfacing. 6 floor jets, 2 side returns around steps, 1 skimmer also near steps. Spa has 4 jets. 1 hp Sta-Rite Supermax, 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 cartridge filter (holds up to CC200), ComfortZone gas heater - old and broken, Master Pool return distributor (not sure what to call it). Pool Before Resurface

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    The blocks are not mortared. Just dry stacked. Sounds like a hurricane pad is the way to go. No, not bolted down, it is just sitting on the rubber feet. It hasn't moved any since I installed it last September.

    Thanks. I did everything except the pool and original equipment, pump & filter. I built the pool hut, installed the solar and the heat pump, built the outdoor bathroom, stone steps, screened porch, all of it. I'm on break now!
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    I'm in FL and also have installed a heal pump. The FL code requires the heater be "tied down" (bolted to pad) for hurricane protection. It's a good idea and easy to do.
    I also extended my concrete pool equipment pad. I did not use rebar to tie the new piece to the old. I don't know if this is a concrete-industry approved (most likely not) method but it worked - I just screwed in a couple (4) of 1/2" x 6"L Tapcons (concrete bolts) into the side of the old concrete leaving them sticking out about 3 inches. Then I cleaned the old concrete edge and painted with concrete bonding paint. Then I poured the new concrete extension (which was like 24" W x 36" deep). It's been several years now and there is no signs of cracking at the joint.

    The hurricane tie-downs are just strips of metal (about 2" wide x 6" long) that sit inside the bottom channels of the heat pump frame with one end resting on the pad and screwed down with a 1/4" x 1-3/4" tapcon.
    My older heater had a tab with a hole drilled at each corner that you run a tapcon through to secure to pad. Like these Tapcon 1/2 in. x 6 in. Hex-Washer-Head Large Diameter Concrete Anchors (2-Pack)-50426 - The Home Depot
    You will need a hammer drill (which can be rented at HD and other rental centers).
    20K gal In-ground pool with raised Spa overflowing into pool; two Jandy Sheer Descent waterfalls; Pentair IntelliTouch i7+3, IntelliChlor, IntelliPH, 3 SAM/SAL lights, Pentair FNS60Plus filter, two 1.0 HP WhiperFlow pumps, Jandy/Compool auto-valves, RayPak Heatpump, RayPak 406A LP spa heater, Polaris 360 PS Cleaner. Patio and deck lighting by Volt; Volt 600W landscaping transformer; Webber grilling station

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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    Quote Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post
    I'm in FL and also have installed a heal pump. The FL code requires the heater be "tied down" (bolted to pad) for hurricane protection. It's a good idea and easy to do.
    I also extended my concrete pool equipment pad. I did not use rebar to tie the new piece to the old. I don't know if this is a concrete-industry approved (most likely not) method but it worked - I just screwed in a couple (4) of 1/2" x 6"L Tapcons (concrete bolts) into the side of the old concrete leaving them sticking out about 3 inches. Then I cleaned the old concrete edge and painted with concrete bonding paint. Then I poured the new concrete extension (which was like 24" W x 36" deep). It's been several years now and there is no signs of cracking at the joint.

    The hurricane tie-downs are just strips of metal (about 2" wide x 6" long) that sit inside the bottom channels of the heat pump frame with one end resting on the pad and screwed down with a 1/4" x 1-3/4" tapcon.
    My older heater had a tab with a hole drilled at each corner that you run a tapcon through to secure to pad. Like these Tapcon 1/2 in. x 6 in. Hex-Washer-Head Large Diameter Concrete Anchors (2-Pack)-50426 - The Home Depot
    You will need a hammer drill (which can be rented at HD and other rental centers).
    cool. thanks for the info! I've got a few of those screws laying around. We have a concrete block house, so anytime we want to attach something to an outside wall we use those. Is 1/4" x 1-3/4" really big enough to screw this thing down?

    How difficult was the installation overall? Not just the pad. I'm having trouble finding a pool service that will install something I buy anywhere except from them. One guy quoted about $400 but that didn't include electricity, and I'm not sure he'd do it if I buy elsewhere, he was pimping his supplier, which was $200 more expensive than inyopools. However, it is local so the transportation and chance for damage is reduced, and returns & presumably warranty repairs would be easier as well. It would be nice to go that route and not have to worry about much but the costs start mounting substantially (extra $200 + $400 for his installation + he claimed $500 - $1000 for an electrician to do the electrical). If I'm looking at an extra $1500 that starts pushing things out of our price range again.
    15k gallon (?) kidney-shaped inground concrete (paint) pool & spa combo undergoing resurfacing. 6 floor jets, 2 side returns around steps, 1 skimmer also near steps. Spa has 4 jets. 1 hp Sta-Rite Supermax, 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 cartridge filter (holds up to CC200), ComfortZone gas heater - old and broken, Master Pool return distributor (not sure what to call it). Pool Before Resurface

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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    The difficulty of installation depends on your skill level.
    For me it was pretty easy.

    The hardest part is the electrical. I had an electrician friend help with the wiring (and installation of rigid conduit as he had the tools to bend conduit - but you can also use PVC conduit).
    In my case, I have the main electrical feed for my house running to exterior panel located on the same side of house as pool equipment. The external panel is really just a switch box (an empty circuit breaker panel) with a 200A main breaker that feeds the homes inside panel. This set up worked really well since I this exterior box that can accept circuit breakers. So in this exterior panel a 220V 60A breaker was installed. There is also another 220A breaker that feeds to the IntelliTouch breaker panel for the pumps and lights, etc. It was not too hard to run conduit from this house panel over to the pool equipment area and into an "appliance disconnect" box. From the disconnect box, flexible weathertite conduit runs to the heater. So it depends on where the electrical is located (how hard is it to get 220V 60A to the heater) - that will determine the cost.

    The plumbing connections are rather simple. Mounting the heater to the pad is simple.

    There is risk (to the installer and you) when you buy it and have someone else install it. If it doesn't work, your going to blame the installer and the installer is going to blame the equipment. Either way its not a good situation and you won't be able to return it as the seller will be blaming you and/or installer).

    IMO, you either buy it and install it yourself (it's okay to have electrical done by others as this is pretty hard to screw that up. It's just three wires) or you let the installer buy the heater and install it for you.

    EDIT: You may also want to consider getting a couple of quotes from a licensed electrician to have the power run to the disconnect box at the heater location. Then whoever does the installation will just need to worry about making the final electrical connection. You could get three quotes so your know you paying a fair price.
    Last edited by CountryBumkin; 04-14-2017 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Add Edit
    20K gal In-ground pool with raised Spa overflowing into pool; two Jandy Sheer Descent waterfalls; Pentair IntelliTouch i7+3, IntelliChlor, IntelliPH, 3 SAM/SAL lights, Pentair FNS60Plus filter, two 1.0 HP WhiperFlow pumps, Jandy/Compool auto-valves, RayPak Heatpump, RayPak 406A LP spa heater, Polaris 360 PS Cleaner. Patio and deck lighting by Volt; Volt 600W landscaping transformer; Webber grilling station

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    I used liquid tight conduit for the electrical. It is 3 wires plus a bond wire, I just ran the bond wire to my pump bond wire.
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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    For the size heat pump you are looking at you need a 60 amp service just for the heat pump. That doesn't include the load from the pump or anything else on the pad. You will want to be careful to size your wire correctly based on the length of wire you need to run.
    Chuck-
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    Re: Heat Pump Replacement Installation - Question About Base

    Quote Originally Posted by CJadamec View Post
    For the size heat pump you are looking at you need a 60 amp service just for the heat pump. That doesn't include the load from the pump or anything else on the pad. You will want to be careful to size your wire correctly based on the length of wire you need to run.
    Thank you. I have a friend of a friend that does electric work for a pretty good rate so I'll probably leave most of that to him. Though honestly it looks pretty easy to me.
    15k gallon (?) kidney-shaped inground concrete (paint) pool & spa combo undergoing resurfacing. 6 floor jets, 2 side returns around steps, 1 skimmer also near steps. Spa has 4 jets. 1 hp Sta-Rite Supermax, 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 cartridge filter (holds up to CC200), ComfortZone gas heater - old and broken, Master Pool return distributor (not sure what to call it). Pool Before Resurface

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