Spa draining - so is the wallet.

[ps0303]

Yes those nuts can be tightened to the point the handle won't move.

The handle on the valve looks like the two other handles on the intake side. I would guess that the valve was of the same manufacturer and they just added the actuator. The handles don't make any difference.

 

[JamesW]

The locking nut only locks the handle when the handle is installed directly on the valve.

When the handle is installed on the actuator, the lock screw should not be able to lock the handle.

The actuator shaft is tall enough to keep the handle from locking.

Even if the screw was overtightened, it should not lock.

Check the jva, gva and cva manuals. They all say to tighten the locking knob. If tightening the knob locked the handle, how would the valve turn?

Some handles are interchangeable. I think the problem is that the grey part was left on. That should have been removed.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You can also check to see if there are any locking pins in handle. The Pentair valve handles have a series of holes in the plate that can receive a plastic pin. The pins are meant to be used to physically restrict the motion of the handle around the shaft so you can only turn it between two points on a circular arc - 0 to 180, or 0-90, or 90 to 270, or 45 to 135, etc, etc. Depending on where the pin is placed, it can stop the handle from turning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nedogre20]

(I edited for space..)

Thank you Nedgro20! I was able to determine through a leak detection company that determined I didn't have a "leak". However after the last plumber was here I may have one now.. the water is going down whether the pumps are running or not.

Previously, I was losing 1-3 inches overnight, when the pumps were off. After he left yesterday, I'm losing that in an hour. Plumber also said that I needed to replace an activator because it "wasn't turning." When I got home I tried the toggle and it moved. He had the top nut screwed down so tight, it COULDN'T move! %#@(&^%$# The actuator valves are set to come on at freeze alert - but if they can't budge because they are too tight. Oh my.. NO WONDER the actuators are burning up! I'm too old to go to plumbing school, but I may have to.

This is my first pool, and I am learning the HARD way.

I did want to mention that I did have a leak detector company come a few months ago and check out the spa, and we passed with flying colors - a few months ago. But you have me thinking for other possibilities for sure!

Have you ever thought of that "Fix A Leak" stuff? I saw that after your suggested video.

imrodee,

I have not tried that fix a leak stuff as that is only a temporary solution. You and I are both located in the dallas area and ever since we had that hard freeze in january where it got down to 15 degrees, thats when my problem started. After that night, I had to start filling up the pool every other day to keep it at a normal level.

This is a pic of the broken joint that I posted on youtube.

 

[Nedogre20]

A pic of all the pipes

 

[JamesW]

The crack in the picture does not look like freeze damage. I suspect that the pipes did not line up with the trenches exactly and someone forced them in leaving the joint under stress. Cold weather could have contributed but I don't think that it's the primary reason.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I agree with JamesW that damage looks like a pipe fitting that was under stress. Constantly, repetitive cycling of pressure in a fitting like that could easily cause a split if the pipes are left under tension from improper installation and/or the fitting started off with a defect.

imrodee and Nedogre20,

Please read the following article on pipe freezing and freeze protection - The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection

A 1-1/2" or 2" buried PVC pipe has almost no chance of freezing.

 

[imrodee]

Water level this morning was at the jets. The pumps were off all night.

Storms are here - as promised, I guess that will keep the spa filled.

 

[imrodee]

I agree with JamesW that damage looks like a pipe fitting that was under stress. Constantly, repetitive cycling of pressure in a fitting like that could easily cause a split if the pipes are left under tension from improper installation and/or the fitting started off with a defect.

imrodee and Nedogre20,

Please read the following article on pipe freezing and freeze protection - The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection

A 1-1/2" or 2" buried PVC pipe has almost no chance of freezing.

Very interesting. I doubt we'll get another freeze this year, but just in case.. I'll pick up heat tape and a thick pad to cover the equipment.

I just went out to look at the spa level again and noticed that one of the jet rings was not screwed on tight to the wall like the other jet rings. It was a good 1/4 from the wall. I'm filling the spa to check to see if that was some of the problem. Since the water went down past the jets, it can't be my only issue.

The plumber is supposed to come back out to check the valves.

Thanks for the pics Nedogre20. You had a mess on your hands! Kudos for being able to figure it out and work through it!

 

[Nedogre20]

Joyful noise that's an interesting article and your theory of the pipe being under stress makes complete sense as well.

imrodee let us know what happens after you filled the spa. My spa would drain down to the jets every night when the pool was completely off. After filling the pool every other day, it was obvious I had a leak somewhere.

 

[gary300]

One thing to check is the position of the handles on the valves that have actuators. The handle should be exactly parallel or perpendicular (depending on the application) to the pipes entering the valve body. The Jandy valves do not have a lot of room for error in the rotation because the internal flaps in the Jandy valve just about exactly cover the ports when the valve is in the right position. So just a little mis-alignment will not let the internal flap cover the port entirely causing a leak.

I went crazy trying to figure out why my spa was draining water back into the pool overnight. I replaced my check valve (125.00 later) and still had the problem until I noticed one of my automated valve handles was a little (mabe 12 to 15 degrees) off from parallel to the valve body. I adjusted the internal cams in the actuator to correct the error and that ended my spa drain problem.

Easy thing to look at, just a suggestion.

 

[imrodee]

Joyful noise that's an interesting article and your theory of the pipe being under stress makes complete sense as well.

imrodee let us know what happens after you filled the spa. My spa would drain down to the jets every night when the pool was completely off. After filling the pool every other day, it was obvious I had a leak somewhere.

Well right now, I'm in SERVICE mode. But I will keep you posted on this thread.

 

[imrodee]

One thing to check is the position of the handles on the valves that have actuators. The handle should be exactly parallel or perpendicular (depending on the application) to the pipes entering the valve body. The Jandy valves do not have a lot of room for error in the rotation because the internal flaps in the Jandy valve just about exactly cover the ports when the valve is in the right position. So just a little mis-alignment will not let the internal flap cover the port entirely causing a leak.

I tried to figure out why my spa was draining water back into the pool overnight. I replaced my check valve (125.00 later) and still had the problem until I noticed one of my automated valve handles was a little (mabe 12 to 15 degrees) off from parallel to the valve body. I adjusted the internal cams in the actuator to correct the error and that ended my spa drain problem.

Easy thing to look at, just a suggestion.

I'm suspecting a valve handle as well.. The biggest problem is, I don't know where the valves should be. When I had a problem , my PB told me to flip the toggle switch.. and it worked... for a while.

_____________________________________________

It's in Service Mode at the moment. It was 100% filled up an hour ago.

1 hour later: It is currently 2 inches below spillover without anything running.

I'll call Pentair tomorrow to make sure my settings are correct... and we'll proceed from there. Since the very first year this has been an issue...

Who has a wine bottle opener? I'm done jacking with this for the night.

 

[Nedogre20]

imrodee did you ever find out why your spa was draining??

 

[pokey]

I am in Dallas as well and *also* have a mysterious undiagnosable leak that I have spent thousands of dollars trying to nail down. I actually had my entire pool replastered which I think helped, but I still have tons of bubbles in my return and my pump never maintains full pressure - it fills up and drains and fills up and drains. I'm strongly considering just filling the thing in. The last leak detection company I had out found that the "balance lines" beneath the skimmers didn't hold pressure so they just plugged them. Now I am not losing quite so much water per day, I'm losing about an inch every couple days, so it might just be evaporation. But given what I've been through so far, I'm pretty gunshy about chalking it up to evaporation. I need to run a very accurate bucket test to ensure that it really is just evaporation. Even if that's the case, I clearly still have a problem with air in the system - any ideas what could be causing that?