New Build in PA - Need Help Making Final Choices

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oakridge

0
Silver Supporter
Jan 16, 2017
169
Outside Philadelphia
Pool Size
26000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Autopilot Digital PPC4 (RC-52)
Hey All,

I am new to the forum after lurking a couple of weeks. I am looking into putting an in ground pool in this year. I grew up with a large pool and have the sense that 800 sq ft is a good size (free form or rectangle...not sure yet). I am having trouble narrowing down on the pool builder as the national companies (Anthony & Sylvan for example) have some awful reviews despite a great sales rep. The local builder is not very responsive and despite claiming to build a much higher quality pool, they worry me that come build time they will be nowhere to be found. The owner is a bit older and may soon retire so I also worry about the warranty. I am hoping some might share insights on how to make a chose between the two. Price different is around 10%. Maybe I should keep looking? I talked to 5 builders, 3 in person. The main differences I see for the two I like most other than the above is as follows:

A&S
  • Dedicated lines, 3/8 rebar shallow end, 1/2 rebar deep end
  • Jandy Plus 1.5 HP Pump
  • Aqual Cal SQ-225 Heatpump 125K BTU
  • Jandy Pro Series DE Filter 48 sq. ft.
  • Jandy Fusion Soft - Nature 2 (yuck!)
  • 2 Hayward Color Logic LEDs
  • 80 sq ft Sunshelf
  • Equipment installed on condenser pad like material

Arista Pools
 
Hey there Oakridge :) Welcome to TFP. Glad you've been able to look around for a few weeks.

Some random thoughts based on your post: 800sf pool is a large pool!

Both those are suggesting the use of minerals which we don't recommend. I'd suggest going for a Salt Water Chlorine Generator from the start... makes the chlorine and feels great because of the added salt.

Do you want to swim earlier/later in the swim season or are you just looking to heat the water during the normal swim season? The answer may play into whether you want a gas heater (if possible) or the heatpump.

Other than that... neither of those proposals mention depth (how deep do you want it?) do you want to be able to dive or not? Will this be used for group playing or swimming?

Do you want some fancy water features or fire features? Don't forget those type things add a lot of the bottom line cost.

Do you need to worry about little children around the pool and plan for a cover or fencing?

Just a few thoughts to ponder.... Again, welcome!

Yippee :flower:
 
I agree that 800 sq ft pool is HUGE. We just got permitting approved and should be starting actual ground breaking soon so the search for a PB is fresh in my mind. My husband is a lot more into the equipment but I know the salt generator is best and also, esp for a large sized pool, a variable speed pump like the second proposal would be ideal esp for efficiency.

Are they doing 3d renderings and designs for you? Pavers? A spa?

I will say this too. Don't be afraid to reach out and talk to quite a few builders. Get actual pool estimates with the details written down too. Your concerns make a lot of sense though. I am not familiar with these big builders but always am concerned about companies that aren't local. But another thing too is that if the price is pretty close, def go with who you feel most comfortable with. We actually had 2 out of 5 PB that we liked. One was a little smaller company but both had excellent reviews and were local but the smaller companies sales guy we liked more. We just felt more comfortable with him and he also addressed some key concerns first without us having to bring it up. So after some negotiating, we went with his company and are so glad we did as we have had some unique things come up just while waiting for permitting and him and his business partner have been so amazing in handling everything. You're going to be spending a lot of time with these people so liking who you choose is def important even if they are a touch more expensive.

Sorry I can't help more. Maybe more info about the builds or pics of the designs to help decide?
 
Thanks for the input. I am surprised that everyone I've talked to says that a 800 sq ft pool is so big. I marked it out with flags in the yard and it really does not seem that big. Here are some more details to answer the questions. I have everything in writing and have looked at 5 builders, but only did three in person consultations. I did not put in all the details as I tried to highlight the differences.


  • Neither include a cover and tell me I can get one at the end of season for around $4k. I will be encircling the pool with a split rail fence separate from the house per local code.
  • No pavers/deck; I am asking for just coping right now
  • No spa; I don't think I'll use it
  • Arista gave me 3D renderings; A&S drew out the pool shape I originally asked for on paper to scale with the back of my house visible (just a architectural schema type doc)
  • Depth will be 3-8 or 3-7 feet; I haven't decided, but that will not change the price
  • I am going to put in the SR Smith TurboTwister; no other water features or fire features
  • I am considering dropping the heater; mid-May to end of August is the best I can get out the weather here so a heater does not seem worth it
  • This will be mostly a playing pool with occasionally swimming of laps by my wife
  • I agree about scratching mineralization

This is a big decision and I have done a lot of research. It just seems the builders in the area don't come with resounding reputations without paying a huge markup. Owner build is interesting, but I don't have the time to manage it.

I was hoping someone lurking here in the Philly area might have had experience with these builders as I have seen limited reviews on Arista and a number of negative A&S ones on this board. Both have built pools in my neighborhood. Perhaps I need to look even broader.
 
Welcome! I have an AutoPilot total control, which is the same as the Digital except it can add ORP and PH measurement/control. Really like the features of the Autopilot, as I replaced my original salt water chlorine generator (SWG) which was only a few months old, with it. +1 with the advice about not needing minerals. You should make sure it has a cell which is rated for at least 2x your pool size. For example, my pool is 19,000 gallons, and I use the Autopilot RC-52 cell which is rated at 52,000 gallons. This means that even in the peak of summer I will have no issues generating sufficient chlorine (which is why I needed to replace the essentially new other swg).

Also like that bid because it includes a variable speed pump, rather than a fixed (single) speed. A variable speed is definitely the way to go as it can save you lots of $$ as you can dial it back to lower speeds and save electricity (I also replaced my few month old - working perfectly - single speed pump with a new VS). Wish I had found this site before my build and I would have save couple thousand $$ replacing equipment so soon.

Not sure if you plan of being able to dive into deep end, but if so, make it at least 8' deep to be safe. We have a diving board and its used a lot.

Some other comments about a new build in general:

1) Install as much decking as you can. You will be surprised how much room loungers, chairs, walking space for people, ... take up. Much easier to do at beginning and cement is one of the least expensive parts of a build.

2) Consider some built in umbrella mounts. We have a built in table with one that sits between two built in lounger (in the water) and great to have our 11' umbrella open at times so we can relax in shade while having a drink, and then open when we want sun.

3) Install a surge protector like the Square D HEPD80 with your pool's electrical sub-panel. Its pricey to replace pool equipment. Mine protects pump, lights and salt water chlorine generator (SWG)

Enjoy,
Gary
 
I'll chime in here cause I'm in the same situation as you. I have only 1 quote from a local guy, but is price was high. He seems like a great guy, but won't come down, even with cash. I also have a quote from the first company you mentioned. Sales guy rocks. Said the project manager they will use for me has been with them a ton of years. Kinda makes me feel better. We have 2 friends that both have pools from them. one is over 20 years old and the other is 5 plus and both are perfect. the newer one our friends had zero issues with them. and I remember when they were putting in the pool and remember they never said a word about things going wrong. I look at it this way also. they are a huge huge company. that means huge huge insurance so if something goes wrong I will be covered.

My problem is I built my house with guys I have known since I was in diapers. I know I can pick up my phone today and call any of them at any time and they will be at my house when I get home for anything. I won't have this with whoever I go with cause I won't know them. but they are only doing my pool. I'm taking care of everything else. fence, hardscape, pool house, et.

When you say dedicated lines. . . I know their skimmers are home runs but I know their returns aren't. might want to ask about that.

also how many skimmers and how many returns. that is a large pool. I'm 500 square and I have 2 skimmers and 2 returns. I still haven't had a conversation with them about upping the returns. I also need to have the conversation I don't want the salt generator they r using. same as urs.

I will also say as I changed things the price started to climb as quick as some other places I have talked with theat dont' come to my area, but was willing to give me some insight.

finally I will say. you are down by phili? I found a but load of builders down that way just by googling to see if any come up to my area. even found a few down in Allentown that covered phili but not up my way.
 
Thanks again! GaryT58, the builders quotes did not include a subpanel. Electric and fence costs are estimated as they did not measure explicitly for how long the electric run would be. I have plenty of space on my panel now. Should I get a subpanel put in anyway?

Also jimim, there are a lot of builders in the area. At some point they all seem the same. I am glad to hear a more positive take on A&S. I'll have to ask about the lines and skimmers. If I recall correctly, it is two skimmers and four returns (it's part of the solar circulation system). Arista will put in six in floor returns.

As far as the pool size, it seems with a sunshelf, a deep end with a slide and a shallow area that a smaller pool might be tight. Am I going to big with the pool? Will this dramatically increase cost of maintenance and operation?
 
Not sure about your specific electrical requirements there, but my main panel was only about 30' from where my subpanel is. So even if they can use your main, I would still suggest the good surge protector - for about $100 its good insurance as the pool equipment alone is a pretty big expense.
 
Just wanted to give some feedback on the heater. I'm in southern NY and can use the pool about the same time period as you (though I stay open/swim through mid Sept). I feel it's even more reason to have the heater since it's such a short time to swim (I use nat gas). Unless you like the water cold (and some do) you wont be in it much in May or June. The water will be cold until the end of June so you have 60 days where it's comfortable without the heater. With the heater you are swimming comfortably from the opening. You can turn the 60 days into 100 days no problem. I was at a July 4th party and the in-ground pool was not heated and not shaded by trees at all and the temp was only 75. On a blistering hot day that's fine but on cooler days I want the heater.
 
So I have a neighbor with a similar sized pool. He says he never uses his heater, and his pool gets to mid 80s. Maybe that is because as he claims, but not validated via postings in this forum, that his dark pebble tec finish is the reason for the warmer water. I am thinking a heat pump might be good enough. The cost of pebble tec vs installing a heat pump can only be justified if pebble tec wasn't actually costing so much more than a heater, actually did make the pool warmer with a dark color choice and that I could feel Pebble Tec was really more durable. My parents had a plain plaster pool that they only refinished once in 30 years. Pool chemistry is king or so it seems to keep a plaster pool from lasting just as long a Pebble Tec.

I have another neighbor whom does use the heater to extend the season. I am not sure if they are gas or heat pump. I'll have to check. Also a similar sized pool. Most of my neighborhood has pools from 650-800 sq ft...that's why I am still feeling that 800 with a sunshelf is really not that big.
 

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oakridge said:
So I have a neighbor with a similar sized pool. He says he never uses his heater, and his pool gets to mid 80s. Maybe that is because as he claims, but not validated via postings in this forum, that his dark pebble tec finish is the reason for the warmer water. I am thinking a heat pump might be good enough. The cost of pebble tec vs installing a heat pump can only be justified if pebble tec wasn't actually costing so much more than a heater, actually did make the pool warmer with a dark color choice and that I could feel Pebble Tec was really more durable. My parents had a plain plaster pool that they only refinished once in 30 years. Pool chemistry is king or so it seems to keep a plaster pool from lasting just as long a Pebble Tec.

I have another neighbor whom does use the heater to extend the season. I am not sure if they are gas or heat pump. I'll have to check. Also a similar sized pool. Most of my neighborhood has pools from 650-800 sq ft...that's why I am still feeling that 800 with a sunshelf is really not that big.
Click to expand...

I would believe him that it does. But I don't know that he see that until July/Aug. I forgot to mention, and it's important, that the friend's house I was at did not use a solar cover. I don't either so it sorta slipped my mind. If you use that you will keep a lot of the heat in. I feel that it's really the overnights that impact the pool temp the most. If you use a solar cover you'll keep a lot of the heat that the sun put in during the day. On my current pool I haven't noticed but my last pool was above ground and I could loose 3 degrees overnight if it was cool. Good luck with whatever you decide, it will be awesome.
 
Nectarologist, thanks for that...yes a solar cover does seem key to reduce evaporation and cool off. It seems a pain though to deal with (take off/clean) if you don't have a rectangular shaped pool.

I'll be happy to post a layout if I can get my scanner to work!
 
Hey, is there a need for a chlorinator (Nature Soft Inground) and a SWG like the Autopilot? One of the builders suggested both, but I'm hazy on why. I believe he said to use it to startup the pool or SLAM it? In other words, is it simpler than a couple pucks of Chlorine in one of those floating dispensers?
 
Not overly familiar with nature soft, but looks like another SWG. I would not SLAM with a SWG. Unless you have a LOT of extra SWG capacity, you would not be able to SLAM with it. If you need to SLAM, just turn off the SWG and use liquid chlorine (bleach - non-scented/not low splash). If you maintain the pool it would be rare to need to SLAM (I never needed to in my first year). Also, liquid bleach is good to get pool to initial chlorine level at startup and then use SWG to maintain. Having an oversized SWG allows you to "boost" chlorine generation when you need it - i.e. lots of people coming over, so raise it some to provide an initial higher level - or boost after an "accident" in the pool. As for tablets, I would stay away as they add other chemicals. Use the SWG for normal generation and boosting, and liquid for SLAM.

So no, I can see no reason to get both.
 
Marla, GOOD CATCH! I saw that and meant to look into it and forgot!

When I do a search for "Nature Soft Inground" all I come up with Nature 2 which IS a mineral system. You do NOT want this! It is $$ to use and it is NOT good for the pool or people long term. The minerals build up over time and can cause stains and turn blond hair green :shock:

Kim:kim:
 
Regarding your heater...

Our pool is 30,000 gallons with a 400,000BTU gas heater. It can heat the water at thee rate of a degree an hour. I would be concerned that a 125,000 BTU will have to run constantly to really make a difference.
 
I am thinking of skipping the heater the first year. Also, this is a heat pump so I believe that means it needs less BTUs as compared to gas.

Now I am stuck on whether I should do pebble tec and go smaller with the pool. It's so hard to find anything that shows pool sizes with a person or something in the pic to compare scale.
 

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