Yet another cloudy water problem – not algae

[Clark]

Sorry to be making my first post a request instead of a contribution. I've been lurking and learning so much here for a while - thanks for the great forum. The pool in question (details in the signature) gets re-filled with well water that has a CH of around 220.

Here's the problem. A few weeks ago I noticed a slight cloudiness and it got to where I could barely see the bottom within a few days. There has never been a green color, CC has always been zero and the overnight chlorine loss test has never shown a change. It seems like algae isn’t the problem but I put some extra chlorine in at first just in case. I attached a picture of the water today.

With the help of this forum I’ve been keeping the water chemistry in line pretty well, at least I thought. It has been a couple years without any kind of trouble at all. The only thing worth noting is the pool seems to very regularly need acid to keep the PH down. Here are the current numbers:
FC 12
CC 0
PH 7.3
TA 70
CH 650
CYA 40

The filter has been running about 12 hrs per day since this started and only just now they need a cleaning, which I will do within the next couple days.
I know the CH is a bit high but, from reading here, I was under the impression it can be managed up to 900+.
Any thoughts? Thanks very much for any help.

 

[kimkats]

Hi and Welcome to TFP!

No green color you say? Hummmm but oh so cloudy! That is a problem for sure.

You say you added extra chlorine in the beginning. How high did you take the FC and for how long did you keep it there?

How often you do test the PH? How often do you test the FC? How often do you run a full test?

Please take a picture looking down at the steps for reference.

Here is a link to the SLAM. Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

As you will see it is more than just taking the FC up and calling it good. It is a process that takes time, testing, and adding chlorine until you beat whatever is going on.

You CAN have algae even when you do the OCLT I am sad to say. We have seen it more than once.

Take out your filter cartridge and take a picture of them then clean them off.

I REALLY think you need to do a SLAM. The most important part of the SLAM is M as in maintaining the FC at SLAM level for you CYA until your pool is clear again.

Take a daily picture of your pool looking down at the steps. That will help us and you see any changes as you do the SLAM.

we can help you get your pool clear again. It will take some time but..........will be so worth it. That one picture shows a neat looking pool. I would love to see the whole thing!

Kim

 

[duraleigh]

Welcome to the forum.

How are you chlorinating the pool?

How do you know your filters need cleaning?

 

[Clark]

Thanks for the quick responses!

When the cloudiness was just starting, I increased the chlorine to 20-22 and held it there for about a week. At that point the pump was also running about 18 hrs per day - sort of a half-hearted SLAM? The chlorine level stayed up there easily but the cloudiness continued to increase. The mystery of the situation (no green and 0 CC) kinda took the wind out of my sails and I let the chlorine level drift down and reduced the pump run time.
I test the FC and PH every 2 – 3 days and do the full round of tests every week and a half or so. Attached is a picture looking down at the steps.

I’ve been using the chlorinating liquid from Home Depot (sodium hypochlorite 10%). The package of 2 gallons is around $6. For cleaning the filters, I go by the pressure gauge on the top of the container that holds the 4 filters. It reads 12psi with new/clean filters and it's now at 19psi. At this pressure, the vacuum barely moves and the flow in the skimmer looks greatly reduced as well.

 

[pabeader]

We usually suggest cleaning the filters after the pressure rises 20-25% over clean. So for you that would be, around 15psi. Please post some pics of the cartridges before and after you clean them. There may be something to be learned from those pics.

 

[Clark]

Good ideas - I'll document the before and after of the filters and begin the SLAM procedure after that. I just wish it could be known what causes a situation like this to pop up suddenly after such a long trouble-free spell. Then I could prevent it next time...

 

[kimkats]

Clark do you keep a testing log/journal? If not think about starting one. That has helped me see patterns and catch things before they blow up all of the way.

We will brain storm later to see if we can figure it how/why it happened.

Kim

 

[Clark]

Clark do you keep a testing log/journal? If not think about starting one. That has helped me see patterns and catch things before they blow up all of the way.

Tell me more about this testing log. What exactly is the correct way to do it? Is it something like test results by date, amount of chemicals added, visual observations, etc?

 

[kimkats]

Mine is simple:

-small notebook and pen

Date:
Weather: (full sun, big rain, lots of wind, lots of stuff in pool, etc)
FC:
CC:
PH:
TA:
CH:
CYA:

Only test FC and PH every day unless there has been a big rain like FL can get. Then I run all the tests. I do a FULL test every weekend no matter what.

It is one of my main tools to learn my pool in the beginning and find it helps now that I have it all dialed in (shhhhhh but I don't really test every day anymore since I have learned my pool so well :slidehalo

Kim

 

[Clark]

Please post some pics of the cartridges before and after you clean them. There may be something to be learned from those pics.

Here (finally) are the pics of the filters before and after. The first three pics are before and the last is after cleaning. They didn't look as dirty this time. Normally they're a darker brown all over and have more patches of dead bugs/plant matter.
After doing some thinking, I've been wondering if water temperature could be a factor in this cloudiness? During the summer the water temp is in the high 80s and now it's at 56. Can the water cooling 30 degrees do anything significant? Playing with the pool calculator, I notice it has an effect on CSI.
I ask because, thinking back, it seems like the cloudiness came on as fall was intensifying and the water was cooling down. I know, just because it happened at the same time doesn't mean one caused the other.

 

[Clark]

View attachment 56048View attachment 56050

 

[kimkats]

Those filters do not look that bad. hummmm

How about a couple of shots of the pool water please. Looking down at your steps so we can see what you are dealing with.

Also please list your last test results while you are at it.

Kim

 

[duraleigh]

Before you start the SLAM, I believe you should perform an OCLT (it's in Pool School) to see if you are losing chlorine overnight.

I assume your pool is still cloudy and it may be just simply filtration but the OCLT test will help us get a better idea.

The mystery of the situation (no green and 0 CC) kinda took the wind out of my sails

If you will learn to test a little more often and understand more of why you are testing, the mystery will vanish and you will be in complete control of your pool. You are doing a lot of the right things so keep reading and learning and we'll get your pool crystal clear soon.

 

[duraleigh]

Oops! Tim5055 pointed out that you have performed an OCLT.....that's good but your wording is a little strange sort of implying that you have done more than one.

Can you tell us when your last OCLT was performed and the results?

 

[Clark]

Can you tell us when your last OCLT was performed and the results?

I did another OCLT test last night. The loss was just about 0.5 ppm or maybe a little less if I try to be very strict with the color change. I guess 0.5 is close enough.

The latest test results:
FC 10
CC 0
PH 7.6
TA 60
CH 650
CYA 40

Here are some more pictures of the steps. The first is the old one from the 12th and the second is a current one. They are taken at a different times of day and the second was wind-swept water but they seem about the same cloudiness to me.

 

[Captain 776]

i had a cloudy water problem and what it turned out to be is when the builder was building the pool, he did not cap off the pipe from sump to the pump. My water looked like it always had dust floating in it. I discovered this when I found a 1 inch x 1 inch piece of debris in the filter basket before the pump. It was solid but easily crumbled. Then I ran the pump with only the sump line open, it cavitated the pump which shows the pipe is partially blocked. I can easily run with just skimmer line open or just the vacuum line open but if I try just main drain line, the pump is serving for water. I took the grate off the main drain and disassembled the header so I can backlash the line with the hose and that blew a few more pieces back into the sump box but the pump still starved for water. The next move was to snake the line, that also rendered a few more pieces of this hardened mud and perhaps some grout in it also. Then I got to where I can run with only main drain line open but could still see the tiny particles blowing out of return, it looked like the middle return was blowing air bubbles but it wasn't air, it was grit.........what was happening is the force of the water was wearing off tiny particles of what was stuck in this line from leaving it open during construction. A few weeks later 2 more 1 inch square pieces came out into filter basket at pump. After removing those, I used a flocculant........then let it sit 24 hrs as recommended and then vacuumed that mess to waste...........ever since, NOTHING blowing out of returns, NO more dusty / cloudy appearing water water, my water is crystal clear.