First time closing advice

[sprangdog]

I've been lurking on TFP for a while since we built our pool last year and this is the first time posting here. Everyone here is super helpful and I've learned a lot, thanks.

So, last year contractor closed the pool for me. I'm a bit nervous but think I'm up to doing it myself this year, just looking for some advice in a couple of areas:

1) Water has been great all season, and well balanced. Now, just before close, noticed some new fringe numbers for TA, CH, CYA:

FC=2.4
CC=0.2
pH=7.4
TA=80
CH=400-420 (fading endpoint on test)
CYA>/=100
water temp= 46'

I just got rid of pool service a couple of months ago, they were just shocking every week and FC would always be sky-high 10ppm for several days. So, I was excited about getting it right with trichlor feeder and no liquid Cl, so thinking I probably drove down TA a bit and jacked-up CYA. I read other posts about this effect and now think I understand my mistake with tabs. I want to close next couple days before freeze and actually blew out some of the lines today with intent to try to get it done tomorrow, but that was before final check of CYA. Am I right about this and now what should I do? I'd really like to just close it, and will open super-early before temps get warm (like early April) so I wonder if I can drain it well below returns mix some more Cl in using utility pump (how much? CYA level? Water is already cold...) and strap on the loop-loc and let the rain/snow dilute things (last year I had to pump several inches out multiple times to keep water off top step to avoid freeze damage to plaster.)

2) What's the recommended antifreeze dose? I have double drain, two skimmers, four returns: should I put a gallon in each and plug, or do I need to try to fill the lines completely? At the equipment pad, do I need to try to put some into drain and skimmer suction lines at the pump? Finally, heater and pump just get drained, no antifreeze in there right? Freezing pipe in concrete pool wall is a scary thought, so I just want to make sure I'm doing this right.

Thanks again for the advice. Hope I can payback some day when I get more confident.

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome to TFP! Well, at the very least it sounds as if you learned your lesson with a pool service. Those tabs and/or bags of shock definitely did a number on your CYA. If this was summer you'd probably have an algae situation on your hands or close to it. Your elevated CC level seems to collaborate that as well. The cold water temps are your friend. So what to do now? Your CYA is hard to validate as it could actually be higher. But even is it is exactly 100, the SLAM (FC) level is 39. I'd prepare to close. Increase FC to about 39 and let that mix as best as you can either with your pool pump or auxiliary method as you described. Then just close. I would expect between water level reduction and winter precipitation (if allowed in the pool) your CYA could drop some over the winter which would be great for you. As you noted, open as soon as possible in the spring and be ready to check CYA and FC right away to get on track right away.

I'm afraid I can't answer your dosage question about the antifreeze being a little further south. I suspect others will help with that. Reply to this thread if you don't see a reply soon. Great to have you with us at TFP.

 

[sprangdog]

Thanks. Do you know if 39 FC have any ill-effects on the plaster or cover? It is a mesh-type cover that lets water through, so I think your advice about precipitation will work for me. Oh and the CC level is near zero, DPD test shows the faintest pink possible for CC test.

 

[pooldv]

FC up to shock level for your CYA, [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA], will have no ill effects on plaster, covers or even people. It is safe to swim with FC up to shock level.

 

[sprangdog]

So I think I got it. Still not sure about antifreeze, put a gallon in each skimmer and plugged with a 1/2full jug upside down in each pot. tried to put a gallon in each of the returns but a couple kept spilling back out... nervous about those because return lines go through one of the pool walls above-grade. Blew everything out real good with a shop-vac, let it run through each return line for 10 minutes and only air coming out. About the only other thing I could do is fill return pipes with antifreeze from equipment pad and I couldn't see doing that. I didn't put any antifreeze in pipes at equipment pad, either, just blew through everything and took out drain plugs for heater, pump, and obviously drained filter housing. Which brings me to another question, I have this Pentair booster pump for the robot, are those plug-looking things above and below the inlet port really drain plugs? do I need to do anything to this pump other than blow through it?

I'm slightly nervous, but as long as I have a good flow of air through everything I should be good, right? Should I leave all the valves open except main drain?

 

[Catanzaro]

Sprangdog:

Welcome to TFP and I am chiming in a little late. Please answer some of the questions as I do not feel anti-freeze is needed.

1) Did you lower the water below the return jets? If so, then removing water is easy. Using the black rubber expandable plugs with the wing nut is your best choice.

2) Did you remove and vacuum all (most) of the water from your skimmer lines? If so, did you use black plugs and/or a Gizmo?

3) How did you close the main drain? Were you successful? Do you have a shut off valve and have you created an "air lock"? Did you see a lot of bubbles coming from the main drain as air was moving through the main drain piping? The reason I ask is that most shop vac's have a difficult time with the main drain (depending on length, width, and few other factors).

As you are pushing air through the system, water is removed from the filter, pump, heater, etc. There are usually drain plugs on heaters and filters which need to be removed. Also, remove any pressure gauges, etc. Regarding your pump, I would not touch any plugs and do not feel they are for drainage. When in doubt, always go to the manufacturer website and/or manual. I find customer service very helpful any time you are calling about pool equipment.

 

[sprangdog]

Catanzaro:

1) Yes, I drained below returns and blew with shop vac from equipment pad to pool. I then plugged each return leaving only one open at a time and blew each one for few minutes until seemed to be only air coming out. Then I tried to put antifreeze in each using a flexible funnel but not sure how much went in there and how much just spilled back out while pouring. Plugged all with PVC pipethread/o-ring fittings.
2) I had to use compressor to blow skimmers, used air gun into drain port on pump (small hole) and while they bubbled, I scooped water out of the pots until only minimal in there, small amount went back down skimmer when I stopped blowing, maybe shoulda used a rag to get it all... poured gallon of antifreeze into each skimmer and used rubber wingnut plugs in each and then put half-full antifreeze jug upside down in skimmer like pool company did last year. They told me this absorbs any ice expansion (like gizmo I guess) and also will keep supply of antifreeze in skimmer as rain gets in there. I tried to find a skimmer cover that would seal or rig something up with plastic sheeting, but that's probably overkill?
3)you are right shop vac was no match for drain so used compressor with about 30lbs of air pressure into drain port of pump caused main drains to bubble pretty good. I then closed the valve and air locked it. I now realize no way to get any antifreeze in there, so assume that valve is air-tight to keep any water down below frost line... seemed to be effective.

I took plugs out of pump and heater and drained/cleaned out filter housing and brought in filters. Blew some air through all of it. You are right, I should just call Pentair about the booster pump - nothing on their website, only I found instructions on winterizing the main pump and it says after draining to run the pump with no water briefly to get water out of impeller? I didn't do that, think it's necessary?

 

[Catanzaro]

Sprangdog:

Everything appears to be fine. Only item is the antifreeze. I would not use it, but it is all a preference. In the spring, when you open the pool, if you can blow air into the main drain again and close valve, upon opening the valve, water will come gushing back into the pump (Creates a suction of air and when air is released, this acts like a siphon and helps the priming move quicker).