12 amp Intellichlor breaker tripping

[Jimrahbe]

GL,

I'm going to be out of contact for an hour or so while I try to recover from mowing the lawn when the feel-like temp is 112..

If pushing the F button causes the 12 amp breaker to pop. Then make sure nothing is connected to the three RS-485 com ports. If it still pops, disconnect the cell, and if it still pops, disconnect one of the two AC inputs to the Surge card.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goldenlake]

OK,

Just connect the Pump/Filter relay.. And see what happens.. doing nothing else, and then what happens when you push the F button.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Yes, I had done that, this is what I had written
Only pump connected see screen, toggle F button and 12 amp low voltage breaker trips

 

[Jimrahbe]

GL

Did you do this yet??

"If pushing the F button causes the 12 amp breaker to pop. Then make sure nothing is connected to the three RS-485 com ports. If it still pops, disconnect the cell, and if it still pops, disconnect one of the two AC inputs to the Surge card."

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goldenlake]

GL

Did you do this yet??

"If pushing the F button causes the 12 amp breaker to pop. Then make sure nothing is connected to the three RS-485 com ports. If it still pops, disconnect the cell, and if it still pops, disconnect one of the two AC inputs to the Surge card."

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi, no I must have missed that post earlier, I will try that next. Thanks

 

[Goldenlake]

GL

Did you do this yet??

"If pushing the F button causes the 12 amp breaker to pop. Then make sure nothing is connected to the three RS-485 com ports. If it still pops, disconnect the cell, and if it still pops, disconnect one of the two AC inputs to the Surge card."

Thanks,

Jim R.

Which are the three RS 485 com ports ?

 

[Goldenlake]

GL

Did you do this yet??

"If pushing the F button causes the 12 amp breaker to pop. Then make sure nothing is connected to the three RS-485 com ports. If it still pops, disconnect the cell, and if it still pops, disconnect one of the two AC inputs to the Surge card."

Thanks,

Jim R.

Which are the 3 RS-485 com ports ? I included picture

 

[Goldenlake]

GL

Did you do this yet??

"If pushing the F button causes the 12 amp breaker to pop. Then make sure nothing is connected to the three RS-485 com ports. If it still pops, disconnect the cell, and if it still pops, disconnect one of the two AC inputs to the Surge card."

Thanks,

Jim R.

Ok, so I think the three ports you mentioned are on the motherboard per I photo I sent earlier, and I removed all three. Here is what happened. With pump connected, 12 amp popped pressing F, then I disconnected cell and 12 amp popped when pressing F, then disconnected one of the two AC inputs to the surge card and pressed F and 12 amp did not pop, also pump did not start. There was on the screen an error message per photo.

 

[Jimrahbe]

GL,

The three 4-pin com ports on the surge card that is mounted against the back wall of the EasyTouch.

With the three com port connectors removed from the surge card and the cell disconnected, nothing but the surge card can pop the 12 am breaker. I guess it could be the cable from the surge card that goes down to the cell connector at the bottom of the EasyTouch. I'd disconnect it and reconnect the AC input to the surge card, and retest, just to make sure...

With nothing connected to the Surge card, if it pops the breaker, it can't be anything but the surge card...

This is just a guess, but what I think happened.. The cell went bad and took out the surge card.. You replaced the surge card and the bad cell took out the new one.

It this were my system, I would install a new surge card and NOT connect the cell. Fire everything up and confirm everything works. Then I'd install a new cell.

One other thing you can look at is the wires going to the little outside antenna. Confirm that they are not damage or pinched up against the sheet metal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goldenlake]

GL,

The three 4-pin com ports on the surge card that is mounted against the back wall of the EasyTouch.

With the three com port connectors removed from the surge card and the cell disconnected, nothing but the surge card can pop the 12 am breaker. I guess it could be the cable from the surge card that goes down to the cell connector at the bottom of the EasyTouch. I'd disconnect it and reconnect the AC input to the surge card, and retest, just to make sure...

With nothing connected to the Surge card, if it pops the breaker, it can't be anything but the surge card...

This is just a guess, but what I think happened.. The cell went bad and took out the surge card.. You replaced the surge card and the bad cell took out the new one.

It this were my system, I would install a new surge card and NOT connect the cell. Fire everything up and confirm everything works. Then I'd install a new cell.

One other thing you can look at is the wires going to the little outside antenna. Confirm that they are not damage or pinched up against the sheet metal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Ok, I re-did the process this time with the three port connectors removed from the surge card.
Here is what happened. With pump connected, 12 amp popped pressing F, then I disconnected cell and 12 amp popped when pressing F, then disconnected one of the two AC inputs to the surge card and pressed F and 12 amp did not pop, BUT the pump did start and run, no lights on IC40 as disconnected. There were no error messages on the screen.

On the question of the question of the cell cable which connects to the surge card and if that is bad, I disconnected it and with everything else connected including the AC input, with power on the 3 amp low voltage comms trips, and nothing on screen. Also wire to little antenna outside are good.

I will follow suggested process and get a new surge card, not connect the cell to the surge card, and see what happens, if everything else seems to work then will get a new IC40 and install it before attempting connection of cell to surge card.

I don’t see anything burnt on new surge card, no smell, this is beyond frustrating. Would it be wise to just connect a new IC40 to the current card ? Or will that just wreck the new IC40 ?

I appreciate your patience on this and efforts to help, truly lost I am without it.

 

[Goldenlake]

I also don’t understand how a bad IC40 would go and damage the new surge card, with low voltage breakers that trip to protect it. Would you know ?

 

[Goldenlake]

Can you bypass the GFCI temporarily?

So I removed two black wires off the GFCI and there was no change. Not sure if that’s a problem, I kinda assumed current has to go through the GFCI for the whole system to work, but if GFCI is bad, then disconnecting a couple of wires wouldn’t change anything. It was t a bypass per se, but I still want electrical to test it for me as all my problems started by plugging an electrical device into the GFCI and maybe from there that there was a surge.

 

[Jimrahbe]

GL,

My theory on the sequence on what happened could be wrong. But I have no way to tell. Just trying to use a little logic. With the Surge card connected to nothing but the AC input line, it pops the breaker.. I suspect the voltage regulators on the card are shorted... The surge card itself has to be bad..

Or, the input AC voltage from the transformer to the Surge card has to be way too high. It should be about 28 Volts AC and I 'think' this is something you have tested already. If not, you should test the AC coming into surge card. You would measure between the two red input wires while at least one of them is not connected to the surge card. If the SWCG transformer was bad there is a slight chance that it is sending 120 volts AC to the surge card. You have to measure between the two red AC inputs, you can't test between a red wire and ground.

The GFCI outlet is 'normally' used just to be the GFCI for the pool lights and nothing else other than an AC outlet. Your system may be wired differently, but I doubt it.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goldenlake]

GL,

My theory on the sequence on what happened could be wrong. But I have no way to tell. Just trying to use a little logic. With the Surge card connected to nothing but the AC input line, it pops the breaker.. I suspect the voltage regulators on the card are shorted... The surge card itself has to be bad..

Or, the input AC voltage from the transformer to the Surge card has to be way too high. It should be about 28 Volts AC and I 'think' this is something you have tested already. If not, you should test the AC coming into surge card. You would measure between the two red input wires while at least one of them is not connected to the surge card. If the SWCG transformer was bad there is a slight chance that it is sending 120 volts AC to the surge card. You have to measure between the two red AC inputs, you can't test between a red wire and ground.

The GFCI outlet is 'normally' used just to be the GFCI for the pool lights and nothing else other than an AC outlet. Your system may be wired differently, but I doubt it.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim, no I have not done that voltage test yet, I haven’t don’t that before so will ask my electrician to do it Monday. There are a couple of transformers it seems, if one is bad sending to high voltage is it the top one or the bottom one (the bottom one seems to be larger). Also, I didn’t know any better but was able to use that GFCI to power a mosquito trap, no idea if that creates a problem back into the system but never again. Will let you know Monday, thanks for now and please let me know which transformer it would likely be, the top or bottom or both. Thanks

Ps, with the cell disconnected and everything else connected including the AC why would the 3 amp comms breaker trip ?

Also I don’t understand how a bad IC40 would go and damage the new surge card, with low voltage breakers that trip to protect it. Would you know ?

 

[Jimrahbe]

GL,

Breakers are rated for an amperage well over what the circuit needs to run so that when first turned on they don't pop during the initial start up. The cell could just pull more current than the surge card could take over a longer period of time. Many things get hot and burn up and the breaker never pops.

The little transformer is for powering the main card and all the relays and valves. The big transformer is for just powering the surge card, which then changes the AC input to a DC output that drives the cell..

I believe that the 3 amp breaker powers several things, one of them being the com port. I suspect that something is shorting the com port and I hope is it also the surge card, but could be anything connected to the com port.. This is why I wanted you to remove all the 4-pin connectors on the surge card.

I'm just guessing, which is not how you should troubleshoot. What you are supposed to do is take measurements and then follow the problem back to the source. But... Unless you want to fly me up to Ottawa, to test your EasyTouch, you are stuck with me guessing..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Goldenlake]

GL,

Breakers are rated for an amperage well over what the circuit needs to run so that when first turned on they don't pop during the initial start up. The cell could just pull more current than the surge card could take over a longer period of time. Many things get hot and burn up and the breaker never pops.

The little transformer is for powering the main card and all the relays and valves. The big transformer is for just powering the surge card, which then changes the AC input to a DC output that drives the cell..

I believe that the 3 amp breaker powers several things, one of them being the com port. I suspect that something is shorting the com port and I hope is it also the surge card, but could be anything connected to the com port.. This is why I wanted you to remove all the 4-pin connectors on the surge card.

I'm just guessing, which is not how you should troubleshoot. What you are supposed to do is take measurements and then follow the problem back to the source. But... Unless you want to fly me up to Ottawa, to test your EasyTouch, you are stuck with me guessing..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim, I will take all the guess you give me, it’s not everyone who will out in and contribute such time to help someone out, and for that I thank you truly. I will get the electrical voltage tests done, go from there. More to report in a bit. Thanks

 

[Goldenlake]

GL,

My theory on the sequence on what happened could be wrong. But I have no way to tell. Just trying to use a little logic. With the Surge card connected to nothing but the AC input line, it pops the breaker.. I suspect the voltage regulators on the card are shorted... The surge card itself has to be bad..

Or, the input AC voltage from the transformer to the Surge card has to be way too high. It should be about 28 Volts AC and I 'think' this is something you have tested already. If not, you should test the AC coming into surge card. You would measure between the two red input wires while at least one of them is not connected to the surge card. If the SWCG transformer was bad there is a slight chance that it is sending 120 volts AC to the surge card. You have to measure between the two red AC inputs, you can't test between a red wire and ground.

The GFCI outlet is 'normally' used just to be the GFCI for the pool lights and nothing else other than an AC outlet. Your system may be wired differently, but I doubt it.

Thanks,

Jim R.

good morning Jim, electrician came by, the GFCI was fine, the AC voltage between the two red transformer wires was 32 volts. Electrical seems to believe that I should replace that transformer as a first step.

 

[Jimrahbe]

GL,

I would think that 32 Volts AC would be just fine, so I'm puzzled..

Why does he think the transformer is bad?

On the other hand, replacing the Transformer, Surge Card and Cell would certainly fix the problem.

Thanks,

Jim R.