Plumbing design

[bdavis466]

I'd rather see you get the pool design that you want and place the returns where they are needed. Even in a perfectly designed pool, the skimmers won't catch everything.

Assuming everything is correct in the drawing above, I'd think that you'd have little issue with that skimmer and return placement.

Here is the circulation pattern that will be potentiated by the wind:

 

[AimeeH]

M, I told you you you'd get all kind of help on this site

And you must pay back with pictures of build. We love pictures.

 

[mas985]

If thats correct, then I'd suggest something like this:

Is that a skimmer line going under the pool? Wouldn't make more sense for the line to go around the pool so it doesn't have to go deeper?

Also, I don't think it is a good idea for the return lines to go under the pool either.

 

[bdavis466]

You make a good point. Assuming there is room around the perimeter of the pool (and it looks like there is) then Mark's comments are accurate.

 

[wmmallette]

Brian and Mark,

Thank you for your advice so far. It is a great help! Yes sir, I have plenty of room around the perimeter of the pool for any plumbing to run.

Witht the general wind direction, would it make any sense for the second skimmer to go on the north-east edge of the deep end, right where the slope down begins, directly across from the return on the west side? Again, it just seems as if that may work with the natural flow of wind more often than not.

 

[mas985]

Does the wind ever change directions? In most places it does. The best placement for the skimmer is in the direction of the second most common wind direction.

Also, with a deep return, you really don't need the main drains. More of liability than a necessity.

 

[wmmallette]

Mark, that makes sense on the skimmer placement.

I don't understand the function of the main drains, or in what situations it would benefit you to have two. Are you saying that its not necessary to have any at all, or not necessary to have two as in Brian's schematic?

 

[bdavis466]

When you have a main drain you need to have two suction inlets 36" apart to be complaint with the Virginia Graeme Baker Act. A main drain is not a necessity but I feel it is worth the relatively small expense. There are others that feel differently on the topic.

 

[mas985]

Main drains are all but worthless. Read this:

http://www.poolinspections.com/manuals/drains/pools-without-drains.pdf

There is nothing that main drains can do that something else cannot do better (e.g. returns or wall ports).

 

[JamesW]

I think that main drains can help when adding certain chemicals. Salt tends to sink and create a high concentration layer on the bottom. A main drain can help in that case.

 

[mas985]

A lower return does the same thing. Even a normal return pointed downward can do the same thing.

 

[bdavis466]

I don't use mine on a day to day basis but it does have its uses. I've used it to drain water below the skimmer mouth for a water exchange and it was also very beneficial during the plaster startup. I could isolate the drain and sweep the dust into it.

I completely agree that it is not needed and am well aware of its shortcomings for circulation but for the little bit of pipe and low cost, I'd rather have one and not need it than wish I did have one. I think its ridiculous to have a pool approaching six figures and have to buy or rent a sump pump to drain water.

 

[wmmallette]

All good points. I can see why it is debated for sure.

 

[bmoreswim]

I also isolate and sweep dust towards them. I have a too big 2HP pump so they are bringing in a boatload of water. Can't see how that is a bad thing. Necessary no, but useful, yes.

 

[mas985]

I have never "needed" to sweep dust to a MD. That is what a cleaner is for. Again there is nothing a MD can do that something else can't do.

But if you search through the forums, there is one thing that MDs do a lot and that is leak. There are quite a number of posts where MDs are closed off because they leak. Skimmers you can fix but MDs are usually abandoned because the leaks are under the pool where access is impossible.

Just summarizing, there are risks to installing a MD but not much benefit.

And this is from someone who has a MD.....but doesn't use it.

 

[wmmallette]

Sorry for the delay in posting to the thread. I have gone through a few changes in finalizing my design. Attached is the final size for my pool.

I will have vinyl over steps as you see the steps on one end of the T
The steps will span the entire 16 feet of the shallow end width.

Does anyone have suggestions or take issue with the location of the skimmers and returns as indicated on my spec sheet? As has been indicated in earlier posts, the location of the second skimmer in the shallow end is in the North East corner. That is the predominant wind direction in my area, presuming that most debris will end up in this corner and/or passing by the first skimmer on the east wall of the incline part of the pool.


View attachment Final Pool Specs.pdf

 

[grottoguy]

Main drains are all but worthless. Read this:

http://www.poolinspections.com/manuals/drains/pools-without-drains.pdf

There is nothing that main drains can do that something else cannot do better (e.g. returns or wall ports).

Is a wall port different from a side drain that is put right below a wall? I ask because one of the reasons to forego a main drain is safety from the suction if the covers fail ( even with the dual drains there is a remote risk). But side drains have the same risk although you would be higher up at the pool surface if you simply got stuck in one. Also, Bdavis you mentioned that a main drain is good to drain water from your pool? Can't water be drained from your pumps by attaching a hose?

 

[mas985]

A wall port is usually put in right below the skimmer and plumbed to the second port of the skimmer as an equalizer port so it isn't used (doesn't have flow) unless the skimmer becomes clogged although you could set it up to pull from both. Many pools plumb the MD in the same way as an equalizer port for the skimmer although in most cases, the equalizer valve is not always used so the MD always has flow.

In this configuration, even if the wall port was blocked, the skimmer acts as the second path so there is much less of an entrapment risk.

 

[wmmallette]

Anyone have any thoughts (positive or negative) about the skimmer and return placement from the PDF I posted above of what I hope to be my final design?

-Mickey

 

[wmmallette]

I'd rather see you get the pool design that you want and place the returns where they are needed. Even in a perfectly designed pool, the skimmers won't catch everything.

Assuming everything is correct in the drawing above, I'd think that you'd have little issue with that skimmer and return placement.

Here is the circulation pattern that will be potentiated by the wind:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]bdavis,

Any chance you would help me with design of the plumbing for the final design I posted above, in terms of pipe sizes, etc?
Also, do you have any thoughts on my placement of the skimmers and returns as shown in my attached PDF above? It appears to be very similar to your design here, except my steps are in the location of your return on the top of the T, and i swapped sides of the deep end return based on prevailing wind direction.

-Mickey


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