That's a pointless code if you ask me. Why would it be an issue if a junction box was used between your pump and your panel? And how the heck would you use a timer if you had to wire straight from your panel to the pump??? I have my pad breaker running though a junction box and it powers the timers, the SWG power center, solar controller, AND pump....
Pool equipment main wiring repair- solid or stranded
- Thread starter n240sxguy
- Start date
That's a pointless code if you ask me. Why would it be an issue if a junction box was used between your pump and your panel? And how the heck would you use a timer if you had to wire straight from your panel to the pump??? I have my pad breaker running though a junction box and it powers the timers, the SWG power center, solar controller, AND pump....
He was referring to me splicing the main run to the pump pad where it shorted and damaged all the wires last year. It happened about 2ft from the pad. All runs underground are supposed to be solid apparently. I guess there are special epoxy filled junction boxes that could be used, but all the wire, conduit, and labor would be cheaper than that kind of box. Since the conduit is already run, and there is no reason for anyone to dig where 99% of it is, it's just gonna have to do. I am gonna put in a new fence next year, so I'll have to remember where it is.
With a fence, 18" wouldn't matter anyway because I would break it putting fence posts in if I ran an auger through it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok. I have a question for you guys, and I hope I'm not about to be beat to oblivion for any of this, I just haven't come into a situation like this before. In my style of installation, I would've had a main breaker running to a 60A sub panel at the equipment pad. I guess it was cheaper to run a god awful number of #12 through the 3/4" conduit. The "T" that splits from the main wiring and sends the pool light cord to the light has water in it. It's either pool water or rain water. I believe it's rain water unless a cannonball can send a concussive wave through conduit that's behind a light. Anyway, I drilled a hole in the bottom of the "C" condulet that I made my splices in because I don't want water standing in it. It has remained dry for the last 2 days while I've worked on my pool light. Please note that that is going to be replaced soon, so limit the flaming on that aspect of the wiring. The question I have is related to the gfci on the pool light. The trip button doesn't cause it to trip. I think it did last year, but I wouldn't bet $5 on it. I plan to buy a new breaker because it could just be the breaker. One interesting thing in this wiring mess is the fact that they have wire nuts in the panel board between the neutral pigtail on the gfci breaker and the neutral bus bar, and the wire at the equipment pad is not white, as it should be, and is at the panel board, but it is red. I have 3 sets of red and black wires. Two are 240v for the pool pump and booster pump, and the last set is 120v for the light. Anyway, super long question short, what are the chances that the breaker button is just bad? Oh, and as a little more fun, all the equipment was installed with gfci breakers, and the previous owner, I believe at the direction of the pool builder, swapped them for regular breakers since the gfci breakers kept tripping. P.S. I HATE people that do this ****!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
New update to an old problem. In anticipation of opening the pool soon, I went out and kinda kicked the tires on the whole system after the winter. As part of this, I flipped the breakers on and off. When I flipped one of them I heard a buzz, and it tripped. After doing some more research, I found that the same thing that happened last year happened again. I guess there was more bad insulation and it shorted out and burned the wires up again. So, I'm replacing it all from the main panel out to a new sub panel I'll put in with gfci breakers out at the pad. I'm not band-aiding this mess again. As referenced earlier in this thread, last year I added a c condulet to splice the main wires close to the pump. When I replaced my pool light, I found a t condulet buried where the main power came to the pad, and the light cord went to the pool. Today I found another c condulet buried right at the side of the house where it goes underground.
If the old wire doesn't come out easy, I'm just gonna run new conduit around the other side of the pool to the pad since the original run is now under concrete. I'm thinking a 60 amp panel would be more than enough, and would need 3 #6's and 1 #8 for the ground. Does that sound correct? Has anyone pulled those through 3/4 pvc?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If the old wire doesn't come out easy, I'm just gonna run new conduit around the other side of the pool to the pad since the original run is now under concrete. I'm thinking a 60 amp panel would be more than enough, and would need 3 #6's and 1 #8 for the ground. Does that sound correct? Has anyone pulled those through 3/4 pvc?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CJadamec
TFP Expert
I pulled 4 #8 thru 3/4 inch last year for my 40 amp panel that's about as tight as you want to go. If you are going to #6 go to 1 inch conduit. The are conduit fill tables that lay exactly how much you are allowed to put in. If you are pulling new wire make sure to get wire pulling lube it will make your job easier. They sell it at home Depot and electrical supply houses.
According to the conduit fill chart, you can put 4 #6's in 3/4. That's why I was asking if anyone had actually done it. There's a huge difference between allowed and easy to do. I bought a quart of pulling lube last year, so I've got that covered. If I have to run new conduit out to the pad then that's not too bad of a job. Not fun, but not impossible. I need to get up in the attic and see exactly how the old conduit meanders through there. What did you use to pull yours? Did you have a pulling grip that would hold them all at once?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CJadamec
TFP Expert
I used long sweep 90s and the 8s were a bear to get thru. I used some parachute cord to pull the wire cause I had it laying around. For gripping the wire I used a lot of electrical tape.
I'll definitely need 1" then. Thanks for the info.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CJadamec
TFP Expert
I know when I was doing it I had wished I went to 1 inch just to make my life easier.
If you are still looking to buy your electrical cable I got my THHN/THWN here it is really nice clean smooth cable and the price was better than anything I could find locally.
If you are still looking to buy your electrical cable I got my THHN/THWN here it is really nice clean smooth cable and the price was better than anything I could find locally.
Sammy2
0
Keep in mind the minimum conduit sizing in the NEC is for ventilation and cooling of the insulation and has nothing to do with ease of installation. Bigger is better in this case.
Wire is expensive conduit is cheap. For these long runs jut go with 1 1/2 . It does not cost much more, it's an easier pull and you are well within the code requirements.
I'll check them out. I priced #6 at a place I used to work, and it came out per foot at the same price as a 500 ft roll form Lowes; $.34/ft. I just went up in the attic and found the path the current wiring takes. It's three runs of Romex that meets a junction box before it goes to the conduit run to the pool.
More splices. Didn't someone say that was a no-no? Gwegan maybe, last year?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I may very well do that. The old wire is romex to the attic box where it connects to thhn to go through the conduit. How's code about running thhn in an attic out of conduit? I think that's a no-no, but I don't see where it could hurt. It would be a real pain to run the conduit all around the attic where this romex goes now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CJadamec
TFP Expert
There is nothing wrong code wise with the NM cable running to that junction box in the attic. The junction box is indoors so it doesn't really apply to what they were saying last year about having a splice in the conduit outdoors. You can use 6/3 NM cable from your main panel back to that box and switch to the THHN there like it is done now an you will only need to run the conduit outside. The catch to using the 6/3 nm cable is that its only rated for 55amps @ 75C. THHN #6 is rated for 65amps @ 75C. Not sure why you need the 60 amps tho unless you are adding a heat pump. The higher amp rating of the THHN is why I went with #8 in conduit all the way to my service panel instead of going with NM cable to a junction box like you have.
Sammy2
0
I'm a little perplexed by that picture. I don't see the grounding conductor bonded to the can anywhere and I see the intentionally grounded conductor connected to hots (red insulation) unless this is 220 single phase with no neutral which to the best of my understanding is no longer permitted. Even if it is a hot and not neutral it still needs color coded identification with color coded electrical tape to show it is a current carrying conductor.
With the prices I have, it would be cheaper to just run thhn all the way instead of the nm cable. I believe you aren't supposed to run thhn outside conduit, but what's the harm in that if it's suspended in an attic like the romex is now. That thin romex jacket doesn't offer any extra protection as far as I can tell. I'm gonna get back up in the attic in a little while, and pull out one run of the romex to see what kind of length I'm dealing with. Then I can measure the new conduit run outside and have an idea of the total run. The romex run now comes up out of a sub panel on he opposite side of he house from the pool. It goes into the attic, across the living room, up into the upstairs attic, back downstairs to the attic above my bedroom, then outside. It would be a pain to try to run conduit all that way. Even flex would be hard to do the way it runs between attic levels.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All the bare copper from the romex is hooked to two green wires going to the pad. Nothing is grounded to the box. The others are paired up with red and black wires. Two go to the main pump and booster pump, provinding 240v to each. The last one goes to the pool light.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sammy2
0
Metal enclosures are required to be bonded to the grounding conductor. White is neutral only and needs to have tape to identify it as carrying current at each end. This tape can be anything other than green, white or grey.
I understand that and agree. Apparently pool company electricians color outside the lines. I pulled one of the romex runs out. It's 100ft with a little slack that was coiled up at the end. I measured outside, and it's close to 170ft by the time I go around the pool to the pad. Based on preliminary calculations, including tax, here's what it looks like. If I run NM inside, and go to thhn in the current junction box, it'll cost roughly $550. Thhn the whole run, out of conduit in the attic, will run $460. After seeing how long of a run it is, I measured going around the back of the house, and it's 200ft. I can go underground, then hang it under the deck all the way around the back of the house, and go back underground for the last leg to the pad. That would be $380. I bought a new sub panel and breaker today, and I can use my current breakers in it, so there's no extra expense there. More than I was hoping to spend, but it has to be done.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CJadamec
TFP Expert
Code will not allow for thhn out of conduit or a cable tray. I know where you are coming from thinking it doesn't need it but code requirers it.
Also with a run of 270 feet to get a 60 amp run with a voltage drop of less than 3% you are looking at #2 wire. The best you can get with #6 wire is 40 amps which is a marginal at best 4.4% voltage drop for a 270 foot one way run. As it is you should have had #8 wire for 110v/20amps at a run that long. 12 gauge gives a voltage drop of almost 18% for a 270 foot run at 110v/20amps.
Also with a run of 270 feet to get a 60 amp run with a voltage drop of less than 3% you are looking at #2 wire. The best you can get with #6 wire is 40 amps which is a marginal at best 4.4% voltage drop for a 270 foot one way run. As it is you should have had #8 wire for 110v/20amps at a run that long. 12 gauge gives a voltage drop of almost 18% for a 270 foot run at 110v/20amps.