Filter, Organic Material, and Chemical Service

[JoyfulNoise]

Bingo! JouyfulNoise, good to hear from another Tucsonian (Bear Down!). I'm on the other side of town near Marana. From where do you obtain your chlorine? Looks like a SLAM is in order as I still have the green stuff and what appears to be dead algae on the floor.

Firing the pool boys is definitely on the list and my CYA levels have me concerned. Did another quick test this morning using the 0.5 resolution and used the addition of tap water to CYA test. I only looked at FC and CYA:
FC 8.5, CYA 110

Being out of town frequently, I am curious about SWGs and will be learning more about them. I have a slim chance of getting the wife to add chemicals when travelling for work and am often out of town 4-5 days at a time.

- Flappy

Hey Flappy,

Go Wildcats!! My kids love The Pumpkin Patch in Marana. I hear the big retail shops and outlet stores are coming your way, is that true? If so, your quiet oasis up there in Marana is going to get flooded by us east-side horse-farm dwellers

With a CYA of 110ppm your pool's necessary FC is going to be really high and SLAM'ing is going to require a tanker truck full of Clorox. Any chance you can drain and refill about half your pool water? It sucks, I know. But there's not many options to deal with high CYA.

As for chlorine automation, I have an SWCG (Pentair IntelliChlor). The other option is a Stenner pump and bleach tank but that would not work for me because my equipment pad is in direct sun and high heat all day. If you get to a point of considering upgrades, feel free to PM me and I'll give you the name of a good PB who might be able to help you. He may just offer to direct you to his electrical/plumbing subs as he's a GC and prefers big jobs, but even getting good subs is a nice thing to have.

If you post a full set of test results, the fine folks here on TFP are more than happy to help you.



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[Uncle Flappy]

Hey Flappy,

Go Wildcats!! My kids love The Pumpkin Patch in Marana. I hear the big retail shops and outlet stores are coming your way, is that true? If so, your quiet oasis up there in Marana is going to get flooded by us east-side horse-farm dwellers

With a CYA of 110ppm your pool's necessary FC is going to be really high and SLAM'ing is going to require a tanker truck full of Clorox. Any chance you can drain and refill about half your pool water? It sucks, I know. But there's not many options to deal with high CYA.

As for chlorine automation, I have an SWCG (Pentair IntelliChlor). The other option is a Stenner pump and bleach tank but that would not work for me because my equipment pad is in direct sun and high heat all day. If you get to a point of considering upgrades, feel free to PM me and I'll give you the name of a good PB who might be able to help you. He may just offer to direct you to his electrical/plumbing subs as he's a GC and prefers big jobs, but even getting good subs is a nice thing to have.

If you post a full set of test results, the fine folks here on TFP are more than happy to help you.



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I'm not much more than a 5 Wood away from the new mall and consider it being so close a mixed blessing. On one hand, I will be able to walk to some great shopping and, hopefully, some decent restaurants (fingers crossed for a microbrew ). On the other, traffic will be a bear. They already put up an additional stoplight on the Twin Peaks I-10 overpass.

I am starting to face the fact that at least partial draining of the pool will be required. Question is how much and when. My pool needs a facelift and if I can limp along rest of the summer, I had thought about closing it in October for some much needed cool deck and plaster repair. The deck coating is peeling at the pool edge and the blue plaster is a splotchy all over with a few hairline cracks.

As far as SWCGs, I could probably install one myself after a little research about how they work. One in particular I am looking at is the Hayward Goldline T-CELL-15 Turbo Cell. Amazon has it for a reasonable price ($~400). Reviews look good.

Thanks again for your input.

- Flappy

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I'm not much more than a 5 Wood away from the new mall and consider it being so close a mixed blessing. On one hand, I will be able to walk to some great shopping and, hopefully, some decent restaurants (fingers crossed for a microbrew ). On the other, traffic will be a bear. They already put up an additional stoplight on the Twin Peaks I-10 overpass.

I am starting to face the fact that at least partial draining of the pool will be required. Question is how much and when. My pool needs a facelift and if I can limp along rest of the summer, I had thought about closing it in October for some much needed cool deck and plaster repair. The deck coating is peeling at the pool edge and the blue plaster is a splotchy all over with a few hairline cracks.

As far as SWCGs, I could probably install one myself after a little research about how they work. One in particular I am looking at is the Hayward Goldline T-CELL-15 Turbo Cell. Amazon has it for a reasonable price ($~400). Reviews look good.

Thanks again for your input.

- Flappy

Well, just try to remember that, when cursing out all those annoying invaders driving to the mall and messing up your beautiful, peaceful oasis, you may be cursing at me

If you are going to do a remodel of the pool surface, then definitely wait to drain. I think you can limp along until October. Post your latest test results from your test kit and folks will try to help as best they can. Perhaps if you can manage a small partial drain to get you below 100ppm (shoot for 90ppm), then you might be in a better spot. As for the Hayward SWCG, I have no idea as my equipment pad is all Pentair. However, I think lots of folks on the forum have Hayward TCell's so I'm sure you can get plenty of good advice and reviews just by searching the threads and asking for input. The water chemistry part of setting up a cell is fairly straight forward - basically adding salt and running the cell. You'll have to test a lot in the beginning as SWG's tend to make pH rise quite a bit and that throws off people new to SWG's. But the pH rise is entirely manageable and typically requires adjusting other water parameters, mostly TA. Hooking up the SWG to your plumbing depends on your level of comfort with PVC construction. Linking it in to your current automation or trying to setup your own timer/automation is probably the trickiest part as you only want the cell running when the pump is running but I'm sure folks on TFP can easily help with ideas on that. Finally, if all you have is an inefficient single-speed pump, then you may want to work out the electric costs because SWG's need to have the pump running to operate. So folks with SWG's tend to run their pumps longer than people who manually chlorinate. In some instances, if your current pump is really old, upgrading the pump to a 2-speed or variable speed may be worth the cost.

As you can see, lots to think about...

 

[Uncle Flappy]

It took a while but I am finally posting results. It is worth noting that my CYA levels were high (+100) so I partially drained and refilled the pool yesterday. I also went to the pool store (yah, I know) just to compare test results:

Item      Store Test     My Test
FC             5            11
TC             0            0.5
CYA           70            70
TA            90            90
PH            7.8           7.6
CH            50           450
TDS         1600           N/A
Phos         500           N/A

A couple things:

• I have a personal well (not shared) and to use it for refilling the pool (again) makes me nervous. I got a quote for a fill service and to do 20,000 gallons would be ~$1500. I would rather avoid that.
• I am still looking at SWCGs and with the CYA at 70, it appears that at least is on par. Would I need to lower any other levels/further drain the pool?

Thanks for your help!

- Flappy

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Hey Flappy,

With your water the way it is right now you could do an SWG without any further adjustments. Since the Pool Store measured your TDS at 1600 but your calcium hardness is only 200ppm, you already have some salt in your water (that is totally normal, bleach and solid chlorine products all add salt). So you would need to get a good salt test kit (Taylor K-1766) before you add any salt to your pool just to get the correct starting point. Then just hook up an SWG, salt your pool water to the proper concentration and let 'er rip.


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[Uncle Flappy]

Hey Flappy,

With your water the way it is right now you could do an SWG without any further adjustments. Since the Pool Store measured your TDS at 1600 but your calcium hardness is only 200ppm, you already have some salt in your water (that is totally normal, bleach and solid chlorine products all add salt).

Bad news - I made a mistake on the CH - it should be 450. I used the wrong multiplier.

Since nuthin' is easy, I suspect that makes a difference.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Bad news - I made a mistake on the CH - it should be 450. I used the wrong multiplier.

Since nuthin' is easy, I suspect that makes a difference.

Not really. My water currently has a CH of 750ppm and both my pool tile and SWG are perfectly fine. All you need to do with high CH is manage your CSI better so that it is always slightly negative. That typically means keeping your TA low (<80ppm) and your pH at 7.5-7.7 range. Also, you can add 50ppm borates to help keep the SWG from scaling calcium.

You're still good.


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[Uncle Flappy]

Thanks, Joyful, best news I've had all day. I do have scale on the tiles and the pools walls are rough but the house was a foreclosure and the pool came that way.

I greatly appreciate the prompt response and helpful advice. Looks like I have a project this weekend.

- Flappy

PS - I fired the pool dudes (Pima Chemical) and will be loading up on liquid chlorine until the SWCG is in pace.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

No thanks necessary. However, if you see this really long garden hose running from your well to somewhere over on the Eastside, that's me extracting my payment my pool is only 16k gallons and I only need to do 50% replacement so no worries.

Enjoy the weekend project.


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[Uncle Flappy]

Not trying to make this the thread that never dies but I do have a related question that goes back to my original post. Do I have an algae problem and need to SLAM?

I am not seeing any green anywhere and the water is clear but there are small patches of brown silt on the floor that are easily removed by the robot. Perhaps current levels are keeping things in-check?
My FC was at 11.5 before going to bed and still at 11.5 when checked first thing this morning. TC is at 0. CYA 70.

- Flappy

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What's your pool surrounded by? Do you get a lot of dust or dirt blowing where you are?

If you push it with your wall brush, does it kick up and then settle back down right away or does it float line a cloud?

Are the debris piles located near your returns as if the filter were shooting them out?

Typically speaking, when algae is killed by chlorine it tends to bleach out to a grayish color and will stay suspended in the water for a little while. But only some forms of algae do that. So it's hard to say for sure what it is. Could be dust/dirt or pollen. Pollen tends to float on the surface and sand/silt/dust usually sinks.


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[Uncle Flappy]

What's your pool surrounded by? Do you get a lot of dust or dirt blowing where you are?

If you push it with your wall brush, does it kick up and then settle back down right away or does it float line a cloud?

Are the debris piles located near your returns as if the filter were shooting them out?

Typically speaking, when algae is killed by chlorine it tends to bleach out to a grayish color and will stay suspended in the water for a little while. But only some forms of algae do that. So it's hard to say for sure what it is. Could be dust/dirt or pollen. Pollen tends to float on the surface and sand/silt/dust usually sinks.


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It floats up like a cloud when I brush it although the robot seems to pick up okay. It's not near the return and is extremely fine. The pool deck is surrounded by dirt and decorative rock so dust is most likely. In addition, my lab likes to swim while I am at work and she doesn't shower first .

Here is a photo of the silt:


On another note, I just got home and tested the pool to see if any FC loss. Levels are through the roof - 32ppm!!! Pool service came by for a weekly dousing of chlorine gas even though I cancelled Monday. B*stards. Good news is they didn't appear to add any stabilizer as CYA level is still 70.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Chlorine gas injection is fine. You 32ppm FC will dissipate. Just don't swim in it until your FC gets below shock level or else your swimsuits will fade like crazy. Keep the dog out too. Chlorine gas turns into hypochlorous acid and HCl in water so you're ok as far as other levels go.

Given what you've said, I'll believe the dirt theory for now. Let's see how it goes.


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