Proteam Supreme dosage

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Thank you for clearing up the boric acid vs Borax thing. I think I understand now chem geek- borates are mostly boric acid in solution, and Borax gets you there too. I will probably go the boric acid route to start with, because I do not like messing with the muriatic acid and dry acid gets pretty pricey. Borax is actually not cheap in our area either, though certainly cheaper than pool chemicals. Plus, I have a bit of a pH rise issue- not bad, but maybe attributable to the high winds we have all the time. My TA is 90-100 pretty consistently and the pH will rise and settle at 7.8. That is fine for through the winter, but with summer, I prefer 7.5- I have really sensitive skin.
 
Borates are going to buffer your water to about 7.6 to 7.7. You will not really be able to keep the ph at 7.5 without adding quite a bit of acid. I would not fight it since that small difference in pH is not really going to affect your skin, no matter how sensitive. (And the borates will actually be soothing! Borates are not only used in various skin care products like Corn Huskers Lotion but also in eye washes!)
 
So I have 45 lbs of boric acid crystals sitting in my garage as of today. What is the best way to add them to the pool? Through the skimmer, or just sprinkle over the water? How long to run the pump to disperse? I plan to add them 15 lbs at a time (one container). I still do not have test strips, so am guessing a little on how much I have added so far in the form of Borax, but the level currently should not be more than 10ppm. I ordered enough to get the levels up now, and still have some extra to add as the season progresses and backwash/splashout decreases the levels.
 
I have seen two different sets of directions for adding boric acid. One says to pour slowly around the perimeter of the pool, the other said to pour slowly into the skimmer. In both cases you are supposed to leave the pump running for 24 hours.
 
Proteam Supreme Plus, which is just a mixture of boric acid and borax with fragance, says to broadcast it on the water on the container. However like i said, I have no experiene with plain boric acid. Just plain borax and with the Supreme Plus, which I use these days for the convenience factor, since it does not require the addition of acid not does it upset the pH. I run the pump for 24 hours whenever i add a large quantity of borax or Supreme Plus as a matter of course.
 
My Lamotte strips are in the mail. I went ahead and added the first 15lbs of the boric acid to the pool this week. The stuff from the chemistry store is extremely fine. I was able to gently pour it in front of my return and watch the return stream spread it out as it dissolved into the pool like some sort of cool wind tunnel experiment. TA is 80 and pH is 7.5 and there was no noticeable change in either of them. My test strips should arrive this week, so I will wait to add more until then, but I like the boric acid so far. It has been a good solution for me. Borax is actually pretty expensive in my neck of the woods, and our small grocery stores only stock a few boxes at a time. I have gone through the same thing with bleach here- it take 3 trips to 3 different stores, buying every bit they have in stock, to get enough for my size of pool. The bulk order of boric acid came out to about the same cost as Borax and acid, and I am not having to deal with pH and TA balancing. I got them balanced to start and they are staying that way. Thanks for the help.
 
Hi,
Can you tell me if there is any practical difference among the name brands listed in an earlier post as regards adding borates to the pool? I am considering taking the easier path, but for instance there is a measurable difference in price between ProTeam Supreme and BioGuard Optimizer Plus - ~$151 vs $123 respectively for the quantity I need at Pool Geek (unless I am miscalculating something, always a possibility).

Before I search for the best deal, I'm hoping for some advice! I am in SWFl if that makes any difference.

Thank you so much.

Laurie
 
kdzgon, welcome to TFP!

All of the different brands do exactly the same thing once the chemicals are in the water. The only significant difference is between the ones designed to be used with acid and the ones that do not require separate acid. The kinds that do not require acid are much simpler to use.

ProTeam Supreme and BioGuard Optimizer Plus both require additional acid. ProTeam Supreme Plus does not. If you are willing to go the additional acid route (the least expensive approach) it is significantly less expensive to use Borax instead of any of the pool brands.

The least expensive approach that does not require separate acid is usually buying boric acid in bulk from The Chemistry Store. If you want to buy from a pool supply store, Simplicity Maximizer from PoolGeek.com is a good deal if you order enough to get free shipping.
 
frustratedpoolmom said:
Don't mean to hijack here but what is the shelflife of the product? I've got some in my shed that's about 3 season's old...is it any good still?
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JasonLion said:
Borates are very stable, your older container should be fine.
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Okay, new question. Turns out the cannister I have is called "Enhancer-Weekly Treat - to be used with Proteam Supreme". What the heck is it then, and should I bother?
 

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JasonLion said:
kdzgon, welcome to TFP!

All of the different brands do exactly the same thing once the chemicals are in the water. The only significant difference is between the ones designed to be used with acid and the ones that do not require separate acid. The kinds that do not require acid are much simpler to use.

ProTeam Supreme and BioGuard Optimizer Plus both require additional acid. ProTeam Supreme Plus does not. If you are willing to go the additional acid route (the least expensive approach) it is significantly less expensive to use Borax instead of any of the pool brands.

The least expensive approach that does not require separate acid is usually buying boric acid in bulk from The Chemistry Store. If you want to buy from a pool supply store, Simplicity Maximizer from PoolGeek.com is a good deal if you order enough to get free shipping.
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Thank you for both the welcome and the quick response. I somehow missed both needed the acid - I agree - if going that route, much better to use Borax.

BTW, it was so nice to find another site that promotes the BBB approach! I used to frequent Ben's site, but I have had lots of trouble accessing that forum. Having recently moved to SWFL from North Jersey, both the pool composition and weather are different (plus I had access to chemicals such as soda ash and sodium bisulfate that I no longer have) so I find myself needing new info and/or calculations.

Thanks again for the help!
 
JasonLion said:
ProTeam Weekly Treat contains borates and clarifier.
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The old formula was borax and dry acid (sodium bisulfate). They have a new formula but don't list ingredients but I assume its the same as supreme plus...borax and boric acid.
I have never known Weekly Treat to contain Clarifer (and I sold Proteam products.)

Proteam makes the claim that Supreme and Supreme Plus also improve water clarity and the 'shimmer and sparkle" that people see after adding borates (including 20 mule team) have been well documented and are possibly due to the reduced surface tension.
 
JasonLion said:
On the ProTeam product page for Weekly Treat they say "Contains clarifiers". The MSDS just says sodium tetraborate pentahydrate and proprietary ingredients, without giving percentages.
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Yes, I know that but they don't say what the clarifer is and borax itself does 'clarify water. Same claims are made for a lot of the salt and borax mixes sold for SWGs! don't beleive everything you read on a manufacturer's website! If I learned nothing else working in the industry I learned that!
 
First swim of the season today in the borated pool. Very nice. My borates are about 30ppm right now. I have a lot of dirt and water on the bottom because of storms every other day, but the water is very clear and sparkly. I got out feeling clean, did not even shower, just changed and headed for dance class. The only difference that I think I can tell is that the water seemed to have a slightly "bitter" taste to it. Not that I am drinking it in big amounts, but you always get a little in the mouth. I doubt anyone else would notice, I just am more sensitive to those things.
I think I can vouch for the reduction of surface tension thing. Right after I added the borates, I noticed my bug population in the pool went way down. It might have been coincidence with the season, but they seem to go into the skimmer now, rather than enjoying a paddle around the pool. This is not just water skimmers, but all sorts of bugs I can and cannot identify.
The other thing is my battle to keep my solar cover in place. This fall was very very windy, and the solar cover stayed put. It rarely did more than shift around in the water a little.
This spring- I do not think it is that much windier, just a lot wetter. I put the borates in the pool before the solar cover, and I am having a real battle keeping it on. It just does not "stick" to the water like it did in the fall. The winds are from the same direction, and the water temp is the same as in the fall, the solar cover is in the same configuration, so not sure what else could be causing it. Anyway, I figured out to use bleach bottles half-filled with water to hold the ends of the sections down. 6 of them solved my problem.
 
I used to use Bioguard Optimizer before using BBB...now I use Borax with a 200% cost reduction... :-D ...it seems that Borax is clearly the most inexpensive way to get borate into your pool...unless you have better information.. :goodjob:
 

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