New Pentair Mastertemp 400 Heater Install

dailygenesis

Gold Supporter
Nov 19, 2022
249
Oklahoma City
Pool Size
21000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
In this recent thread, I asked about some issues I was having with my Hayward heater. I ended up replacing my Hayward 500btu heater with a Pentair Mastertemp 400btu heater. I also had the installer plumb in a manual heater bypass. My updated equipment pad can be seen in the photo below. I will also post a photo of the old installation for comparison.

On the positive side, this new heater appears, to me at least, to heat water just as quickly or possibly more quickly than my Hayward, which is surprising given that it is 100btu less. But so far I have no complaints about its performance in that regard.

But one thing I've noticed since the install is that head loss with the new system seems to be greater than with my Hayward. The main reason I notice this is because I have to run the pump at higher speeds in order to achieve the same water flow. The way I am judging water flow is by effects on the pool such as bubbles produces by the spa jets or amount of water that goes over the spillover.

Because of this, I've had to step up my pump speeds for two main reasons: 1) in pool mode, water continuously runs through the spillover and if there is not enough volume going through the spa it doesn't really spillover just kind of runs down the side of the spa, which I imagine is not great for the rock over time, and 2) in spa mode just to get enough jet action to make a good spa experience.

Even given the above, I have set my system to never run the pump at more than 90%. In pool mode, I can run between 55-65% to get enough volume for spillover (I used to be able to go as low as 45%), and in spa mode, I usually run 80-90% to get make the spa experience acceptable (I used to go as low as 75%). So, the differences aren't huge. But In pool mode, I can no longer use my system's "low speed" because my automation system maxes out low speed setting at 50% and that won't generate enough flow for the spillover. So, I am just using the "high speed" setting exclusively in pool mode and finding the lowest speed that works.

This all seems ok to me. I just wanted to check here to see if anyone has any thoughts on the above or anything I'm missing or not thinking about that might work better.

new.jpg

old.jpg
 
The MasterTemp has a different heat exchanger design and water path than the Hayward heater.

You are limited by your antiquated Ecommand system.

I have an automated heater bypass and my pump can run 300-400 RPM lower when the MasterTemp is not running and bypassed.
 
You are limited by your antiquated Ecommand system.

Agreed. But thus far, I haven't found a good upgrade path. I've thought about going to one of the newer Hayward systems that has a retrofit kit for the Ecommand, but some have advised against this saying they are unreliable. Do you know of a good system I could explore that might work with all of my equipment and give me better control now and going forward?

Until that can be addressed, it seems to me that the best approach is running all the water through the heater (except in rare situations) and just dealing with the reduced flow as best I can. Would you agree with that?
 
some have advised against this saying they are unreliable.

Some do not know what they are talking about.

Do you know of a good system I could explore that might work with all of my equipment and give me better control now and going forward?

The OmniPL is a fine reliable system.

It is not as flexible as the Pentair IntelliCenter. You are limited to what can be defined in Haywards Configuration structure.

Until that can be addressed, it seems to me that the best approach is running all the water through the heater (except in rare situations) and just dealing with the reduced flow as best I can. Would you agree with that?
Yup.
 
Some do not know what they are talking about.
Ha. True.
The OmniPL is a fine reliable system.

It is not as flexible as the Pentair IntelliCenter. You are limited to what can be defined in Haywards Configuration structure.
Would it be possible for me to move to the Pentair with my current equipment configuration? I imagine myself migrating more to Pentair as things need to be replaced over time, if that is possible. Currently heater is Pentair and controller, pump and SWG are Hayward. Can I move to Pentair controller while keeping Hayward pump and SWG?
 
Ha. True.

Would it be possible for me to move to the Pentair with my current equipment configuration? I imagine myself migrating more to Pentair as things need to be replaced over time, if that is possible. Currently heater is Pentair and controller, pump and SWG are Hayward. Can I move to Pentair controller while keeping Hayward pump and SWG?
Pentair automation cannot control a Hayward pump. It can control your Hayward SWG.

Wait until your pump needs replacement and get an Intelliflo pump. Then you can move to the IntelliCenter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dailygenesis
@ajw22 I have been attempting to experiment with my new heater to figure out the thresholds of pump speed, configuration, etc that will allow the heater to run effectively. One thing I have noticed is that if I open the manual bypass partially and then run the heater, it will shut down quickly with either error code of PS or HLS. I have been raising the pump speed gradually with the bypass 50% open and so far have not found a level at which it will run. That said, I haven't take the pump up as high as it can go yet.

I am wondering if you have any advice or insights on this. For example -- is it possible that the check valve coming out of the heater actually prevents water from flowing through the heater when the bypass is partially open? Also, can I get the heater to show me the status of the switches without having to turn it on and run it and wait for it to fail? I guess what I'm mostly trying to do here is understand how the water flows when the bypass is partially open.
 

is it possible that the check valve coming out of the heater actually prevents water from flowing through the heater when the bypass is partially open?
On this part, I found a way to validate flow through the heater, at least relatively. I can look into the check valve and see the position of the spring as I move the bypass valve position. What it appears to me is that opening the bypass even just slightly creates a lot of change and flow through the heater lessens significantly. When I get the bypass valve about 50% open, there is very little change in flow through the heater from that point to the point where no water is going through the heater. I was experimenting with the valve open about 50% so this was likely restricting flow through the heater too much. It seems to me that the majority of change as far as how much water is flowing through the heater will be between the point of fully closed (100% through heater) and 50% open.

I am still interested in knowing from you whether there is any way to test the pressure switch and high limit switch positions without just trial and error (turning the heater on and seeing if it fails).
 
Watch your filter PSI as you open the heater bypass. The PSI will drop. When the PSI stops dropping that is the most efficient setting to bypass the heater.

When you run your heater the bypass should be fully closed and all water flow should go through your heater. There is no benefit to bypassing water while the heater is running and you risk damaging your heater with low water flow.

You can monitor limit switch positions using a multimeter on the connections. You see 24V when a switch is open and no voltage when a switch is closed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dailygenesis