Solar valve necessary with vacuum relief valve?

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PaulMummolo

Active member
Jun 5, 2014
35
Las Vegas, NV
Pool Size
8000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
I picked up some swim lux solar panels I want to add to my pool. I am planning out the plumbing and I have a question if a solar 3 way valve is actually needed if a vacuum relief valve is installed. Can I just use a jandy positive seal valve? I would like the system to still drain even if the pump is on and solar not being used. Also, are the ball valves needed if I have a VSP to control flow?

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PaulMummolo said:
I picked up some swim lux solar panels I want to add to my pool. I am planning out the plumbing and I have a question if a solar 3 way valve is actually needed if a vacuum relief valve is installed.
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Yes, you need to use a solar diverter valve. Read - Solar Pool Heaters - Further Reading

PaulMummolo said:
Can I just use a jandy positive seal valve? I would like the system to still drain even if the pump is on and solar not being used.
Click to expand...

No.

PaulMummolo said:
Also, are the ball valves needed if I have a VSP to control flow?
Click to expand...

Yes, and use a diverter 2-way valve, not a ball valve.

PaulMummolo said:
View attachment 642146
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PaulMummolo said:
I picked up some swim lux solar panels I want to add to my pool. I am planning out the plumbing and I have a question if a solar 3 way valve is actually needed if a vacuum relief valve is installed. Can I just use a jandy positive seal valve? I would like the system to still drain even if the pump is on and solar not being used. Also, are the ball valves needed if I have a VSP to control flow?

View attachment 642146
Click to expand...
The ball valves (get 2-way Jandy type if at all possible) in the diagram are to isolate the system when it is drained and not in use in Winter. Without them water can (will) find its way to the panels and either freeze and cause damage or just leak out the panel drain that is left open in Winter.
You absolutely need the vacuum relief valve at the top of the solar array opposite the input to the panels, or as in the diagram. You want the panels to drain as completely as possible when not in use heating. Without one, the heated supply pipes can actually "crush" when the water tries to fall off the roof.
If properly installed and set up, most likely the valve that directs the water to the panels won't be completely shut to the pool. It take two people to do this and is seldom done. When it is done the system is much more efficient.
Because a true "solar" valve is more expensive, and was difficult to get if it wasn't supplied in a solar-controller kit (Pentair/Compool only), we would just drill a 1/4" hole in the diverter of a positive-seal valve and all was good if the rest of the parts were installed properly.
 
1poolman1 said:
The ball valves (get 2-way Jandy type if at all possible) in the diagram are to isolate the system when it is drained and not in use in Winter. Without them water can (will) find its way to the panels and either freeze and cause damage or just leak out the panel drain that is left open in Winter.
You absolutely need the vacuum relief valve at the top of the solar array opposite the input to the panels, or as in the diagram. You want the panels to drain as completely as possible when not in use heating. Without one, the heated supply pipes can actually "crush" when the water tries to fall off the roof.
If properly installed and set up, most likely the valve that directs the water to the panels won't be completely shut to the pool. It take two people to do this and is seldom done. When it is done the system is much more efficient.
Because a true "solar" valve is more expensive, and was difficult to get if it wasn't supplied in a solar-controller kit (Pentair/Compool only), we would just drill a 1/4" hole in the diverter of a positive-seal valve and all was good if the rest of the parts were installed properly.
Click to expand...
Do the solar valves have an actual check valve in them or is it just a hole? If I drill a hole, when the pump is running and solar is off, wouldn't water slowly fill the solar system and leak from the VRV?
 
PaulMummolo said:
Do the solar valves have an actual check valve in them or is it just a hole? If I drill a hole, when the pump is running and solar is off, wouldn't water slowly fill the solar system and leak from the VRV?
Click to expand...
Solar valves have a check valve, yes. Could water eventually get to the panels with just a hole? Depends on the pump and water speed and the distance the water has to be lifted. If you have a VSP running slowly it wouldn't likely happen. If it does, it won't leak at the VRV as they close on pressure, they are just a check valve that opens on vacuum.
In Winter, with the isolation valves closed water can't get to the panels. In the Summer it matters very little as they would not likely ever fill completely. Its been done that way for as many decades as I have done pools, well before VSPs were used, with no issues I am aware of. Even with a single-speed pump I don't recall ever seeing the panels fill if there was a hole in the diverter. The supply pipe, yes. The panels, no.
And, I have seen many systems that used Jandy and Hayward solar controller kits that came with standard valve, no hole, that work just fine. Only Pentair/Compool kits came with that type of valve and only Pentair makes them today.
Variable-speed pumps, with their slow water during filtration (if set properly), change everything about the system.
If it makes you more comfortable, get a valve with the check valve in it and be good, won't hurt anything. If you don't you may be second-guessing yourself and then your pool won't be Troublefree.
 
1poolman1 said:
Solar valves have a check valve, yes. Could water eventually get to the panels with just a hole? Depends on the pump and water speed and the distance the water has to be lifted. If you have a VSP running slowly it wouldn't likely happen. If it does, it won't leak at the VRV as they close on pressure, they are just a check valve that opens on vacuum.
In Winter, with the isolation valves closed water can't get to the panels. In the Summer it matters very little as they would not likely ever fill completely. Its been done that way for as many decades as I have done pools, well before VSPs were used, with no issues I am aware of. Even with a single-speed pump I don't recall ever seeing the panels fill if there was a hole in the diverter. The supply pipe, yes. The panels, no.
And, I have seen many systems that used Jandy and Hayward solar controller kits that came with standard valve, no hole, that work just fine. Only Pentair/Compool kits came with that type of valve and only Pentair makes them today.
Variable-speed pumps, with their slow water during filtration (if set properly), change everything about the system.
If it makes you more comfortable, get a valve with the check valve in it and be good, won't hurt anything. If you don't you may be second-guessing yourself and then your pool won't be Troublefree.
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Thanks, just ordered it. On another note, is it better to run the pipes up to the roof through my eve overhang or go around the outside? I have a flat concrete tile roof here in Las Vegas.
 
PaulMummolo said:
Thanks, just ordered it. On another note, is it better to run the pipes up to the roof through my eve overhang or go around the outside? I have a flat concrete tile roof here in Las Vegas.
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If I were installing it, as I used to do, it would go over the eves not penetrate the roofing material. The less penetrations the better. Its not as pretty, but it works fine. As an installer/contractor, if it leaks its my problem. As a DIYer, its up to you, but drilling older concrete roofing isn't fun and is a potential roof leak. There are ways to hang the panels on a roof like that without any penetrations as well. Then it is only the supply and/or return plumbing that needs to be attached with as few penetrations as possible.
 
1poolman1 said:
If I were installing it, as I used to do, it would go over the eves not penetrate the roofing material. The less penetrations the better. It’s not as pretty, but it works fine. As an installer/contractor, if it leaks it’s my problem. As a DIYer, it’s up to you, but drilling older concrete roofing isn't fun and is a potential roof leak. There are ways to hang the panels on a roof like that without any penetrations as well. Then it is only the supply and/or return plumbing that needs to be attached with as few penetrations as possible.
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I just built the house about 1.5 years ago so I am not too worried about tiles cracking. Where the pipes would go through is external to the living space so even if there was a leak, it would leak outside. Still not 100% sure on how to seal up the pipes properly. I guess a roof flange.
 
PaulMummolo said:
I just built the house about 1.5 years ago so I am not too worried about tiles cracking. Where the pipes would go through is external to the living space so even if there was a leak, it would leak outside. Still not 100% sure on how to seal up the pipes properly. I guess a roof flange.
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Yes, a roof vent, sometimes called a roof jack, and one that has a rubber boot to seal around the pipe. The issue is that your plumbing must go up through them and then return to the level of the roof to meet the solar panels. Its kind of an ugly installation and really doesn't save much in the way of fittings.
And, if a pipe were to leak, just because the pipe is external to the dwelling, water will find a way in and you don't want that. If nothing else, it can destroy the eave. I have a good friend that is a roofing contractor and he tells me some of the stories of how a small appearing leak does tremendous damage to the structure because they aren't caught early enough. Just my take. I never wanted the liability when I actively installed solar.
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