MasterTemp 400 problems

Charleswwelch

Member
Jan 10, 2021
11
Atlanta, GA
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Hi everyone. First time posting to TFP but I’ve learned a ton from the forums, so first, a thanks to all the participants. Second, I’m not sure if I should be starting my own thread or tagging SlipperyPete’s. I have a very similar issue with my MasterTemp 400 but let me know if I should move to my own thread.

My heater goes through the ignition cycle, blower starts and igniter clicks (three cycles) with gas smell, but no ignition. Service heater light comes on but no error LEDs under the control board light up. I’ve torn the heater apart a few times in the past (and now wish I’d just replaced it) to swap the heat exchanger pot last year and this month swapped the heat exchanger and control board. I’ve got so much sunk cost in the repairs now it makes no sense to replace, but I’m at a loss for the current issue. I’ve replaced the igniter and tested the replacement at 130 ohms at ~78 degrees. I’ve read conflicting posts about whether that means Amazon sent me a bad igniter, but I got one ignition yesterday only to repeat the backfire (?) process that had me calling the pool man. The pool man had me replacing the heat exchanger due to a slow crack/leak that he blamed for the ignition issue ($1,000 later, I think he was wrong). I’m at a loss at this point. I will say, when I took apart the heat exchanger pot the flame holder (the cylindrical piece not the cone) was in rusty/rough shape from the previous water in the pot. Before I replace that simply due to rust and drop another $200 into this guy, I thought I’d post here for any other advice. Thanks again all.
 
Thanks for the reading materials. I hadn’t spent any time with the Fenwal and hoped it would lead me somewhere. I did replace the igniter. This one reads 75 ohms but it is igniting. I didn’t find that scenario in the Fenwal details. I expected to get some LEDs blinking from the Fenwal after the backfires this time, but the heater kept igniting, at least 4-5 times (noted it was more than 3 since that is the time out for the Fenwal) and would backfire 3-5 times per try. The exhaust had a strong smell to it, I think I read somewhere on TFP that someone called it acrid, that seems like a good descriptor. I did get anxious that the backfiring was going to damage things and cut off the heater via the pool controller which may have avoided any code. Any thoughts from here? And thanks again.
 
Backfiring indicates a bad air/gas mixture.

Check the static and dynamic gas pressures using a manometer.

Check the air blower and that no rodents have built nests in it.

Show us pictures of your gas meter with all the labels. Is your gas service adequate for the heater and all other gas appliances in your hosue?
 
Backfiring indicates a bad air/gas mixture.

Check the static and dynamic gas pressures using a manometer.

Check the air blower and that no rodents have built nests in it.

Show us pictures of your gas meter with all the labels. Is your gas service adequate for the heater and all other gas appliances in your hosue?
Thank you. The pool guy that I mentioned previously tested the gas flow and determined it was indeed sufficient. He was worried that the line was small but said it read just right. No other gas appliances using gas at the moment either. It has also been running with the current service the 4 years I’ve owned it. I will read up on the manometer but definitely haven’t ever used one.

I had the entire gas and blower systems off when I changed the heat exchanger until last week and didn’t see any evidence of rodents. Will triple check.
 
Thank you. The pool guy that I mentioned previously tested the gas flow and determined it was indeed sufficient. He was worried that the line was small but said it read just right. No other gas appliances using gas at the moment either. It has also been running with the current service the 4 years I’ve owned it. I will read up on the manometer but definitely haven’t ever used one.

I had the entire gas and blower systems off when I changed the heat exchanger until last week and didn’t see any evidence of rodents. Will triple check.
Hi again. I was able to confirm, no critters blocking air flow. I have attached images of the gas meter and I’m working on the manometer (hopefully this weekend). In the meantime I tried to start it back up and took a video, in case I’m misdiagnosing something. Hopefully Dropbox links make it through the filter, or I can try some other way. Thanks.


 

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Your gas meter is undersized for 400K.

Contact your gas company and get a meter upgrade with sufficient capacity to support all the gas devices in your hosue.

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Hey. Thanks guys. I’m looking into the gas service. How would the heater have worked for years and now with this years start up it doesn’t have enough gas pressure. Same meter and line. I picked up a manometer and I’m looking into the pressure today. I wanted to go ahead and post the videos properly for further thoughts. If it is the meter size, will I need to replace the buried line also? It’s about 50 feet long from the meter to the heater. Thanks again!




 
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How would the heater have worked for years and now with this years start up it doesn’t have enough gas pressure
May have been running lean and slowly damaging the heater
will I need to replace the buried line also
Depends - it looks like s 3/4 or maybe 1" line. Based on the below chart, at 50ft, <2psi, neither supported 400k btu. You could see if your gas supplier can support a 2 stage setup which would require installation of a low pressure regulator to the house and another regulator at the heater.
 
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May have been running lean and slowly damaging the heater

Depends - it looks like s 3/4 or maybe 1" line. Based on the below chart, at 50ft, <2psi, neither supported 400k btu. You could see if your gas supplier can support a 2 stage setup which would require installation of a low pressure regulator to the house and another regulator at the heater.

Would also require another regulator on the house.

Its probably easiest to get the correct size meter. They can go to a 630 with just a meter bar swap. The utility would handle upgrading the regulator.

This also assumes that there isn't more than 230k BTUs worth of load at the property. I would call a plumbing contractor and the utility to see what your options are.
 
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Ok. So, I got the manometer today. Still trying to fill the gap between the pool guy telling me I have sufficient gas and what you guys report. I was excited to report what I thought was sufficient gas supply at .021 bar(s?). However, I realize now you guys are talking in inches of water column and targeting 0.2 not 0.02. Inches of wc is not a unit of measure I am familiar with. My (cheap Chinese+amazon) manometer has about 15 unit settings, but none look like wc in or similar. What am I missing? Embarrassingly, I have an unused engineering degree, so I should know this, but lack of use leaves me without. Chock that up to dollars well spent…I’m enjoying the learning now.

Thanks again.

 
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You're absolutely 8" water column or just above .25psi. Is that with everything running in your house?
Thanks. I’ll say it’s with everything running that would run while the pool heater is running. The gas furnace obviously only runs in winter as does the gas fire place.

So it lines up well between 4 and 14. Is there another place to test the manifold pressure (or is that change in pressure?)
 
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Given that I think I’m arriving at sufficient pressure via the post above I’m coming back to an earlier comment from ajw22. Do I have a janky flame caused by the rusty flame holder? Or is there another step I should take?
 
Did you monitor the gas pressure when the heater tried to ignite or ran?
 
Did you monitor the gas pressure when the heater tried to ignite or ran?
I did. I disconnected the igniter because I didn’t particularly think the backfiring next to my head would be pleasant. I took the video of that above, here it is again but the pressure drops to 0.004 bars which is 1.6” wc (I get it now that sws confirmed the conversion for me).

 
I did. I disconnected the igniter because I didn’t particularly think the backfiring next to my head would be pleasant. I took the video of that above, here it is again but the pressure drops to 0.004 bars which is 1.6” wc (I get it now that sws confirmed the conversion for me).

That is your problem.

You need a minimum of 4" WC.

While you have good static gas pressure, your meter and pipe cannot give the sustained gas flow between 4 and 14 WC the heater needs.

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