Problems after pump motor swap

nscroggs

Member
Jun 8, 2020
22
Riverview, FL
Pool Size
18000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
My original pump motor burned up and, being in Florida, the sun faded the label so it was unreadable. I could make out that there was a “2” in the HP field, but I couldn’t tell if there was anything before that number, so it could be 1/2, 1 1/2, or 2. I took the motor to my local Pinch-a-Penny to see if they could identify it and they said it was most likely a 1HP but didn’t specify full-rated vs up-rated. I reached out to Inyo and they recommended choosing a pump that matched the impeller rating. Looking at the part number on the impeller it was rated for a ½ to 3/4 motor.

My pool is a rectangle, no water features, no heater, nothing special, with a cartridge filter. It’s about 18,000 gallons. 2 returns, 1 skimmer, and 1 bottom drain.

I went with the recommendation and got a 1HP motor, but it leaked and had cavitation issues. I was also hesitant because of the impeller rating. I could stop the leak after replacing seals a couple of times so I decided to return that pump and step down to a 3/4HP pump and upgrade the impeller and diffuser to ones that were rated at 3/4.

Now, the pump doesn’t leak but it does run for a few minutes, shuts off for a few minutes, and repeats the cycle, I assume because of thermal overload. I checked the wiring, confirmed that the line output is ~118V and made sure the motor was set to 115 (as opposed to 220V). The motor definitely gets very warm but not so hot that I can’t keep my hand on it. Maybe that’s the intentional design on the thermal protection.

My question is how can I figure out what the problem is? The original motor ran perfectly fine until it burned up, but it was likely the original motor and was 10+ years old. No other changes or modifications were made so it seems like the pump is working too hard? My first thought was to go back to a 1HP motor, but the pressure on the filter gauge with the original motor was around 8PSI and now, with the 3/4HP motor, it stays around 12-15PSI with a clean filter. So it would seem to be that going bigger might increase the pressure, which may or may not be OK. The original impeller being rated for ½ to 3/4 gives me pause too as it seems that a ½ HP motor may be undersized and would have to work that much harder to move the water. At the same time, since I’ve upgraded the impeller and diffuser to match the current motor, wouldn’t that mean that it’s not a flow rate issue?

FWIW, there are also small air bubbles that are coming out of the furthest return jet (none out of the closest one). I’ve turned the valves from the drain and skimmer to see if maybe one of them has some kind of obstruction but none of them made any noticeable change to the bubbles (ideally they would go away when the offending line was closed.

Do you guys have any ideas or recommendations on what to look at next or things to try? I’m almost to a point where I call a service tech but I was unexpectedly laid off so I’m trying to do anything and everything I can do myself before calling them and having to out out the money.
 
My original pump motor burned up and, being in Florida, the sun faded the label so it was unreadable. I could make out that there was a “2” in the HP field, but I couldn’t tell if there was anything before that number, so it could be 1/2, 1 1/2, or 2. I took the motor to my local Pinch-a-Penny to see if they could identify it and they said it was most likely a 1HP but didn’t specify full-rated vs up-rated. I reached out to Inyo and they recommended choosing a pump that matched the impeller rating. Looking at the part number on the impeller it was rated for a ½ to 3/4 motor.

My pool is a rectangle, no water features, no heater, nothing special, with a cartridge filter. It’s about 18,000 gallons. 2 returns, 1 skimmer, and 1 bottom drain.

I went with the recommendation and got a 1HP motor, but it leaked and had cavitation issues. I was also hesitant because of the impeller rating. I could stop the leak after replacing seals a couple of times so I decided to return that pump and step down to a 3/4HP pump and upgrade the impeller and diffuser to ones that were rated at 3/4.

Now, the pump doesn’t leak but it does run for a few minutes, shuts off for a few minutes, and repeats the cycle, I assume because of thermal overload. I checked the wiring, confirmed that the line output is ~118V and made sure the motor was set to 115 (as opposed to 220V). The motor definitely gets very warm but not so hot that I can’t keep my hand on it. Maybe that’s the intentional design on the thermal protection.

My question is how can I figure out what the problem is? The original motor ran perfectly fine until it burned up, but it was likely the original motor and was 10+ years old. No other changes or modifications were made so it seems like the pump is working too hard? My first thought was to go back to a 1HP motor, but the pressure on the filter gauge with the original motor was around 8PSI and now, with the 3/4HP motor, it stays around 12-15PSI with a clean filter. So it would seem to be that going bigger might increase the pressure, which may or may not be OK. The original impeller being rated for ½ to 3/4 gives me pause too as it seems that a ½ HP motor may be undersized and would have to work that much harder to move the water. At the same time, since I’ve upgraded the impeller and diffuser to match the current motor, wouldn’t that mean that it’s not a flow rate issue?

FWIW, there are also small air bubbles that are coming out of the furthest return jet (none out of the closest one). I’ve turned the valves from the drain and skimmer to see if maybe one of them has some kind of obstruction but none of them made any noticeable change to the bubbles (ideally they would go away when the offending line was closed.

Do you guys have any ideas or recommendations on what to look at next or things to try? I’m almost to a point where I call a service tech but I was unexpectedly laid off so I’m trying to do anything and everything I can do myself before calling them and having to out out the money.
Got a picture of the original? Using a 3/4hp pump on that large of a pool would seem odd. Normally we’d recommend a larger horsepower variable speed pump as it saves electricity over the long term (and is less noisy) but if you’re in a financial pinch they tend to be more expensive. If the original pump was more than 10 years old, I’d have just replaced the whole thing.
 
Got a picture of the original? Using a 3/4hp pump on that large of a pool would seem odd. Normally we’d recommend a larger horsepower variable speed pump as it saves electricity over the long term (and is less noisy) but if you’re in a financial pinch they tend to be more expensive. If the original pump was more than 10 years old, I’d have just replaced the whole thing.
Not great pics by any means but I made the mistake of throwing the original away once I got the 1HP pump installed. These are pics I took trying to “enhance” to be able to read the label, plus one of the label on the filter in case that’s helpful.

My neighbor has the same pump but he has a built-in hot tub and a smaller pool. I attached a pic of his motor as well (the newer pump with legible label). His is a 1HP (1.25 SF) so maybe the old one was actually a 1 ½ HP?
 

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Impellers are not rated as 1/2-3/4 unless it is 1/2 full-rate/3/4 uprate. On that pump there is a large difference of impeller and diffuser for a 1/2hp. What is the number of the impeller you installed? The motor in the picture is rated at 1.25 thp and should have no problem with a full-rated 3/4hp Sta-Rite impeller.
You need to check the voltage at the motor when it is powered on.
 
Looking at the part number on the impeller it was rated for a ½ to 3/4 motor.
Part Number?
step down to a 3/4HP pump and upgrade the impeller and diffuser to ones that were rated at 3/4.
Part Numbers?
I assume because of thermal overload. I checked the wiring, confirmed that the line output is ~118V and made sure the motor was set to 115 (as opposed to 220V).
Show the wiring.

Check the voltage under load and no load.

Show the breaker for the pump.

Check the amperage.

It looks like the date code is April 25, 2021 (Sun), which seems odd that the motor was made on Sunday.

It was made in Thailand, so maybe they work on Sunday.

Why is the motor 4 years old?

Is it used?

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Thailand. In Thailand the working week is Monday to Friday for a maximum of 44 to 48 hours per week (Saturday can be a half or full day).

In Thailand, people generally do not work on Sundays; the standard workweek is Monday to Friday, with Saturday and Sunday considered rest days, although some businesses might operate on weekends with different staff rotations.

Thailand adheres to a standard workweek of Monday through Friday, with Saturday and Sunday considered rest days. However, there are circumstances where weekend work might be necessary:

Employee Consent: Weekend work requires the employee's consent, unless mandated by specific ministerial regulations for certain occupations.

Overtime Compensation: If weekend work is required and the employee agrees, they are entitled to overtime compensation at a rate of at least three times their hourly wage. This higher pay rate incentivizes employees for working on their designated rest days.

Certain industries or professions might have exemptions outlined in ministerial regulations, allowing for weekend work without requiring employee consent or necessarily triggering the higher overtime pay rate. It's advisable to consult with the Ministry of Labor or relevant industry regulations for specific details.
 
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The newer pump in the previous picture is my neighbors pump and was only for reference considering he has a smaller pool than I do. Thinking about it, it would stand to reason that if I have more water than he does, I would likely need a bigger pump than his, no? Or am I over simplifying it?

The original impeller and diffuser part numbers were:

Impeller - C105-92PS
Diffuser - C1-216P

The part numbers for the new parts that I got are:

Impeller - C105-138PEB
Diffuser - C1-200PAZ
3/4HP Century motor - USQ1072

I attached a picture of the new 3/4HP pump I put in along with the wiring as well. The pump spins freely and doesn’t bind, grind, or anything like that. The voltage at the back of the pump when the pump is on is 119.2V. The voltage at the timer when it’s off is 122.5V. I’d have to check the amperage separately but it’s got a 30amp breaker before the timer and a 30amp breaker on the main panel, neither of which trip - it’s just the pump itself turns itself off.
 

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Pentair Impeller C105-138PEB, 3/4 HP Full Rated, 1 HP Uprated -

The label shows a voltage selector switch, but the motor has a voltage selector plug?

That seems odd.

It looks like the part was replaced.

Was the motor used?

Maybe they wired it incorrectly?

I can't see the hot wire coming in?

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Pentair Impeller C105-138PEB, 3/4 HP Full Rated, 1 HP Uprated -

The label shows a voltage selector switch, but the motor has a voltage selector plug?

That seems odd.

It looks like the part was replaced.

Was the motor used?

Maybe they wired it incorrectly?

I can't see the hot wire coming in?

View attachment 631533

View attachment 631534
View attachment 631537
I was wondering about that - having the selector switch vs the plug selector. It’s totally possible that it’s a used/rebuilt motor. I bought it from Amazon but it came in a Century box and appeared new.

The date on the capacitor appears to be 01/13/24.

The hot wire is behind the black wire to the plug and it wrapped around that terminal screw. The black jacket is stripped just enough to get around the screw without exposing any bare wire outside of the terminal.

The Amazon listing (Amazon.com) didn’t specifically say it was used/reman but, for the price, it’s certainly possible. I don’t know what the going rate is but Pinch a Penny wanted close to $500. I figure they also bake in replacement cost as well since theirs comes with a 1-year warranty.

Maybe I just return the pump and bite the bullet on their $500 pump that I know is new?
 
It’s totally possible that it’s a used/rebuilt motor. I bought it from Amazon but it came in a Century box and appeared new.
Looks like a fake product.

I would send it back for a refund.

One place says made in Mexico while a different place says made in China.
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Looks like a fake product made in China and using fake labels.

Contact Regal Rexnord and Maytronics to see what they say.

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Here at Backyard Pool Superstore Red
Address: 209 Hamilton St, Trenton, TX 75490
Phone: (800) 926-5770

Detailed Seller Information
Business Name: Maytronics US, Inc
Business Address:
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Suite 400
Duluth
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US




 
Maybe get a variable speed motor.







As of August 2006 a common date code format for all motors is being used.

It consists of seven alpha-numeric characters.

The first three characters represent the day of the year based on the Julian calendar, the next two the year, and the last two the plant code.

For example, 123064M, would mean the 123rd day of 2006 (May 3, 2006) in Regal’s Juarez IGMEX4 plant.

Users and distributors may visit our website centuryelectricmotor.com to access our ‘date code converter,” as well as applicable warranty forms.

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Reviving this thread again. I had a couple of ideas but none of them turned fruitful. I returned the Amazon motors and bought a new pump from InyoPools (same 3/4HP motor with 1.27 SF, for a total HP of 0.97). It did the same thing - shut off on its own after 10-15 minutes when the motor gets hot. I thought maybe it could be an issue with the wiring from the timer to the motor as it was super old and the carflex was cracked in multiple places. That also didn't solve anything outside of the comfort of knowing the wiring is new and prettier now. I'm pretty sure I've ruled out pump motor issues at this point since this would be the 4th motor I've put on it (2 from Amazon, returned those two, bought one from Inyo it did the same thing so exchanged it (again through Inyo) for a new one that also did the same thing. I suppose it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that both motors from Inyo are bad though...

I bought an amp probe and found that the motor is drawing 15-16 amps under load, whereas the label has the amperage at 13.4 (I also just realized the label says "max load 6.7/13.4", which I believe tells me that the issue is the amperage draw is too high, causing the motor to overheat and go into thermal overload protection (tell me if I'm wrong - just thinking out loud). I also decoupled the seal plate and ran the motor just long enough to get an amperage reading and it runs at 7-8 amps under no load. Once recoupled, as the pump primes and pressure builds, it steadily climbs back to 15-16 amps.

In the same vein of making old things new and solving simple things, I also went ahead and replaced the 20 amp breaker on the outside panel and the 30 amp breaker on the main panel in garage. Again, neither of which solved the issue but at least they're new and have been ruled out.

Thinking there may be a blockage in a line and trying to cover all of my bases, I got one of those clog removal bladders that go on the end of the garden hose and back flushed the skimmer, bottom drain, and vacuum lines, each individually - all of which "came back" clean - as in, no junk came out and I could feel the water coming back up the line (with the exception of the bottom drain because the pool is currently cloudy and cold and I can't see it from the top. The two jets also blow clean except the furthest jet still has small air bubbles when the motor is running (like fizz from a coke can, not large gulps of air).

I replaced seals on the pump basket lid, filter lid (Sta-Rite PTM70 cartridge filter), and the air bleed screw on top of the filter. Pinch-A-Penny recommended not messing with the bottom seal but I'm tempted to replace it anyways.

In replacing the seals, I did find a pinhole leak on the top of what they are calling the tank body (the other piece that the seal plate mates up with). I haven't plugged that and I'm thinking some JB Weld will do the trick there. Other than that, I don't see any drips or moisture anywhere else and don't hear any hissing, but it's also right at the pump so that could be masking it.

Is there anything else I should be checking?
 
Are you still using the new impeller? Your motor is 3/4 "up-rated" which matches the original impeller. That new impeller might be putting too much load on the motor.
 

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