Darkening of pool floor-deep end

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krista.l.adams17 said:
But how does one “lift the stain” considering it’s such a large area? Like do I now just dump in a ton of this copper stain solution?
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Basically yes.

Jacks Magic protocol for lifting copper stains using their #2 product is to add a large bucket, several pounds worth, of the #2 copper and scale stuff (it’s just sulfamic acid) and then add lots of sequestering agent. The stains will lift. The problem is that sulfamic acid screws up the chlorine chemistry and the sequestering agent breaks down over time. So all the copper you dissolve from the surface eventually re-stains the surface. This is why TFP recommends skipping the sequestering agent where you just lift the stains using their #2 powder and then you dump the water (with all the copper dissolved into it). It’s just avoids all the headaches caused by the sulfamic acid reacting with chlorine.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
Basically yes.

Jacks Magic protocol for lifting copper stains using their #2 product is to add a large bucket, several pounds worth, of the #2 copper and scale stuff (it’s just sulfamic acid) and then add lots of sequestering agent. The stains will lift. The problem is that sulfamic acid screws up the chlorine chemistry and the sequestering agent breaks down over time. So all the copper you dissolve from the surface eventually re-stains the surface. This is why TFP recommends skipping the sequestering agent where you just lift the stains using their #2 powder and then you dump the water (with all the copper dissolved into it). It’s just avoids all the headaches caused by the sulfamic acid reacting with chlorine.
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I see what you’re saying. So that’s the purpose of emptying and then filling with new water. Thank you for your consistent input!
 
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I had a post on here previously about identifying a pool stain which is virtually my entire deep end darkening. Well I got Jack's Magic Stain ID and, sure enough, #2 was the biggest removal so it must be the "copper & scale". I bought 10lbs of it (although I will get more since it was 10lbs to 10,000 gallons and mine is 13.5k), but I've been reading a lot of different things regarding using it and long term removal. We do have a heater/chiller and I saw that you should isolate it during treatment, but I don't see a valve that would do that. My big question is there seems to be several suggestions on how to do it. So.... dump in my several lbs of #2 stain remover.. I'm assuming brush, run the pump, etc. But some mention a sequestering agent, some don't. Do I need one? Other people have mentioned that unless I drain the pool the copper will remain and ultimately the stain will reappear. Is this true? Other people said to use the CULator 4.0 to remove the copper. Does that work? And if it does, do I still need the sequestering agent? Okay.. that's all for now. Thanks!
 
krista.l.adams17 said:
Other people have mentioned that unless I drain the pool the copper will remain and ultimately the stain will reappear. Is this true?
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Yup. Sequesterents attempt to keep the metals in solution and they do well but It's only a matter of time until you miss a dose(s).
krista.l.adams17 said:
Other people said to use the CULator 4.0 to remove the copper. Does that work?
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No. Why did they replace the first 3 of them ? Yeah. No. They needed to rope back everyone who stopped trying them with a new gimmick.
 
Newdude said:
Yup. Sequesterents attempt to keep the metals in solution and they do well but It's only a matter of time until you miss a dose(s).

No. Why did they replace the first 3 of them ? Yeah. No. They needed to rope back everyone who stopped trying them with a new gimmick.
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So is there any benefit to skipping the sequestrant and using #2 then switching out 2/3 ish of the water? That can minimize my issue at a minimum I'm assuming.
 
krista.l.adams17 said:
So is there any benefit to skipping the sequestrant and using #2 then switching out 2/3 ish of the water? That can minimize my issue at a minimum I'm assuming.
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That's everyone's own call to make on the lesser of 2 evils. I have good drainage and cheap water so I'm always hardcore on team dump and start over. Some kick that can down the road and figure sequesterents are less work in the short term.
 
TinFoilHat said:
Get the copper in suspension and then fully drain the pool - as long as you can put water back in that has no metals in it.
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FIFY.

Fully drain the pool. Otherwise the leftover sulfamic acid will cause you problems with FC testing.
 

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krista.l.adams17 said:
My hesitance with the full drain is whether or not it'll float my pool. Only been in this house since August so I'm not fully familiar with all of the ins and outs.
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Begin filling as soon as the drain is complete and your risk of the pool floating is minimized.

Get as many hoses into the pool to fill as you can. Even better get a water truck delivery for the first 5,000 - 7,000 gallons.

Do not drain when storms are predicted. Try and pick a dry spell.
 
krista.l.adams17 said:
Here is my set up. The right is a chiller/heater but it looks like for Jacks #2 I need to bypass a heater. From what I see, there isn’t a valve for that. Anyone see a way? The only valve I have appears to do nothing lol
View attachment 638954
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The red handled ball valve appears to allow some (but not all) water to bypass the heater.

You could disconnect the heater unions and construct a matching loop from PVC that the water gets pushed through instead of the heater.

Or shut the pump down entirely and drop a sump/trash pump into the pool so it circulates water for you and then use that to drain it as well.
 
Bperry said:
The red handled ball valve appears to allow some (but not all) water to bypass the heater.

You could disconnect the heater unions and construct a matching loop from PVC that the water gets pushed through instead of the heater.

Or shut the pump down entirely and drop a sump/trash pump into the pool so it circulates water for you and then use that to drain it as well.
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Might go the sump pump route if that's a viable option. How long would you recommend I use it to circulate and do I need to still use the sequestering agent if I'm going to dump the water?
 
krista.l.adams17 said:
Might go the sump pump route if that's a viable option. How long would you recommend I use it to circulate and do I need to still use the sequestering agent if I'm going to dump the water?
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The sequestering agent is only used if you ARE keeping the water. I’d circulate for however long the stain kit thing says to.
 
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