A little schadenfreude

Jump to latest Follow Reply
griffths

griffths

LifeTime Supporter
May 2, 2011
234
Long Grove, IL
Pool Size
28500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I am doing some updates to my pool that have been on the list for a while. One item is replaceing the (non)existing light fixtures with new Pentair 12V incandescent housings and J&J Electronics ColorSplash LXG-W lamps.

Along with the new fixtures, a rewire is in order since the existing boxes are the old school variety embedded in the concrete pool deck.

I tried removing the fixture a while ago and was not successful as the cord was stuck in the conduit so I left it alone until today....

Not sure how the previous pool guy was able to get the cord though the conduit but he was and had absolutely no concern for the next guy (me). All I can say is I hope he is in heck and his job is to replace these fixtures for eternity.

Pool light pic 1.jpg

And he must have thought that getting the cord out was going to be too easy for the next guy (me) so he added a little challenge.


Pool light pic 2.jpg

More pics as progress is made.
 
griffths said:
I am doing some updates to my pool that have been on the list for a while. One item is replaceing the (non)existing light fixtures with new Pentair 12V incandescent housings and J&J Electronics ColorSplash LXG-W lamps.

Along with the new fixtures, a rewire is in order since the existing boxes are the old school variety embedded in the concrete pool deck.

I tried removing the fixture a while ago and was not successful as the cord was stuck in the conduit so I left it alone until today....

Not sure how the previous pool guy was able to get the cord though the conduit but he was and had absolutely no concern for the next guy (me). All I can say is I hope he is in heck and his job is to replace these fixtures for eternity.

View attachment 580634

And he must have thought that getting the cord out was going to be too easy for the next guy (me) so he added a little challenge.


View attachment 580635

More pics as progress is made.
Click to expand...
When that pool was built, they used red-brass conduit for the lights. The conduit acted as the bond instead of running a separate 8ga. wire. Even then, it was incredibly expensive so 3/4" was common. Newer installs use 1" PVC conduit and a bond wire in the conduit with the light cord. Let's not argue bond vs. ground on that subject.
The light cord was pulled using pulling lube. As always, the old light cord has expanded and filled that conduit, but that is not the way the cord came originally, it was tight but it would fit. As to that "kink," who knows? Given the wall thickness, it took a lot of force to cause that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Texas Splash and Newdude
1poolman1 said:
When that pool was built, they used red-brass conduit for the lights. The conduit acted as the bond instead of running a separate 8ga. wire. Even then, it was incredibly expensive so 3/4" was common. Newer installs use 1" PVC conduit and a bond wire in the conduit with the light cord. Let's not argue bond vs. ground on that subject.
The light cord was pulled using pulling lube. As always, the old light cord has expanded and filled that conduit, but that is not the way the cord came originally, it was tight but it would fit. As to that "kink," who knows? Given the wall thickness, it took a lot of force to cause that.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight.

The current plan is to remove the cord if possible then pull the new (smaller diameter) cord with a stranded ground wire as well as bonding the niche externally.
 
Success! I am 50% of the way there.

Thanks to @Texas Splash for the good luck wish.

It was a bit sketchy for a while but got the cord out without damage to niche or pool wall. Once I saw that the cord had pulled out a little, I sprayed silicon lube into the conduit which I figured would help lubricate the cord.

IMG_1339.jpg
Do not know if it helped but the cord is out which is the end goal.

IMG_1350.jpg


IMG_1348.jpg


IMG_1349.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
Life got in the way and I just had the opportunity to work on the second stuck light cord last week. Definitely worse than the first.

Used a tree to get a sturdy anchor point for the pull.

Shallow end anchor point pic 2.jpg Shallow end anchor point.jpg

I was concerned that I was going to rip the cord apart with so much tension on it but perseverance won again.

Shallow end pull.jpg IMG_1551.jpg

This conduit was also out of round and kinked in a few places which made for a challenge but I was ultimately able to persuade the conduit to gave up the cord.

Shallow end niche.jpg

Now the fun starts....repairing the ends of the conduits from each niche and running new PVC to the junction box.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Texas Splash
Well....

All this work to remove the old light cord was a wasted effort.....

The contractor tore the conduit off of the back of the niche today while chipping out the concrete. 😭

IMG_1673.jpg

I have been looking for a replacement niche and believe that Pentair 78232500 large stainless niche is compatible with my Pentair 78438100 fixture but would like confirmation prior to ordering.

I have searched TFP archives and also the Pentair website but cannot find any compatibility chart so am hoping that someone here can answer this question with authority.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
griffths said:
I have been looking for a replacement niche and believe that Pentair 78232500 large stainless niche is compatible with my Pentair 78438100 fixture but would like confirmation prior to ordering.

I have searched TFP archives and also the Pentair website but cannot find any compatibility chart so am hoping that someone here can answer this question with authority.
Click to expand...

Maybe @1poolman1 @98Poolmaster @Lake Placid has the authority you are seeking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: griffths

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
9) A multiconductor cable or flexible cord of two or more conductors shall be treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage conduit fill area.

Maximum fill for one conductor is 53% of the space in the conduit.
 
Maximum fill for one conductor is 53% of the space in the conduit.

Maximum fill for two conductors is 31%.

Maximum fill for more than two conductors is 40% of the conduit.

If you include a ground wire, that is 2 conductors and you can fill to 31%.

The large niche should fit the large light.

Confirm with Pentair to be sure.
 
All forming shells used with nonmetallic conduit systems, other than those that are part of a listed low-voltage lighting system not requiring grounding, shall include provisions for terminating an 8 AWG copper conductor.

If you are using a low voltage light, you should not need the #8 ground wire.

The existing conduit looks like it is smaller than 3/4", which is the minimum size.

What is the exact inside diameter of the conduit?

You probably need to replace the entire conduit.
 
griffths said:
Well....

All this work to remove the old light cord was a wasted effort.....

The contractor tore the conduit off of the back of the niche today while chipping out the concrete. 😭

View attachment 597973

I have been looking for a replacement niche and believe that Pentair 78232500 large stainless niche is compatible with my Pentair 78438100 fixture but would like confirmation prior to ordering.

I have searched TFP archives and also the Pentair website but cannot find any compatibility chart so am hoping that someone here can answer this question with authority.

Thanks
Click to expand...
The light fixture you have will fit the niche you’ve referenced. The niche has a 1 inch rear hub for conduit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: griffths
OK, making progress.

I removed the damaged light housing today.

IMG_1780.jpg IMG_1774.jpg IMG_1778.jpg

The hole in the fiberglass wall is 10-3/4" and the instructions with the new housing says 10" to 10-1/8" MAX diameter.

The old and new sealing and back-up ring line up perfectly so dimensionally they are exactly the same layout.

The reality is that there is about 3/8" between the new housing and the pool wall so should I be worried about the hole diameter and if so, any suggestions on how to reduce the diameter of the hole without closing the hole in the wall with fiberglass and recutting the hole the correct diameter?

After all of this work, the last thing I want is a leak!

Also, what should l use to seal the housing and PVC threaded adapter? pipe dope, Teflon tape and/or other?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
I just took a closer look at the instructions and there appears to be a contradiction in the size of the hole required.

One note says 10" to 10-1/8" but another location shows 10-5/8" to 10-7/8"

Light housing diagram.jpg

Any ideas why the apparent contradiction?

Thanks,
 
griffths said:
I just took a closer look at the instructions and there appears to be a contradiction in the size of the hole required.

One note says 10" to 10-1/8" but another location shows 10-5/8" to 10-7/8"

View attachment 601101

Any ideas why the apparent contradiction?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
Looks like the plan-checker didn't do his/her job before the print was released (former draftsman in my youth).
 
Got one of the housing installed today. There is definitely a gap around the new housing compared to the old one but it appears that the gasket on the front and back of the pool wall will adequately seal the housing.

Light housing rear view.jpg Light housing front view cropped.jpg

However, in a belt and suspenders approach, the plan is to use copious amounts of sealant on the backside to avoid any regrets and more importantly, leaks in the future.

Overall, I am disappointed in the installation instructions as they leave a lot to be desired and do not make clear that there are different gaskets to use depending on the application (vinyl liner vs. fiberglass walls) and the discrepancy with regard to the proper hole size required for the housing.
 
Last edited:

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply