Vinyl Pool Build Chesapeake Va- bidding phase and have ?s

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TX2OBX

TX2OBX

Silver Supporter
Nov 26, 2021
199
OBX NC
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
I contacted 3 different companies and received 1 bid (so far) from the most responsive builder. I have a very big negative that my septic field doesn't leave much room for a pool even though im on almost an acre of land. So we can only do a 10'x30'. But I will take a pool over no pool. Especially since im not on the water anymore. One company flat out said no way I can do a pool, another one said I could with the septic field being moved (almost 14k to do this) and the third company (one I like the best and the bid im attaching) said we could fit a smaller pool without having to change anything. Im hoping to spend no more than 75k not including landscaping or fence. IM selling my pride and joy (30 foot Pursuit center console) to finance the build but having a backyard oasis right now is a higher priority to me than having a boat. The renderings have gotten me super pumped to have more than a sandy dirty backyard lol.

The yard currently is a literal blank slate, so Im trying to do it all, patio, pool, fence, landscape, etc. The construction of the house was finished in March this year, have lived here about 6 weeks and got right into a pool . IM attaching the bid I got with the 3d renderings (info redacted for privacy of me and pool company). This pool is going to be far more simple than the last one. Im going for just a pool this time with no attached spa. (going to do a stand alone spa this time, far cheaper and IMO better).

Summary of bid

In Ground 10'x30' Vinyl Pool
3.5-6 foot deep.
7 foot tanning ledge.
Hayward 1.85 Tristar VSP.- Want to upgrade this to VS950
Hayward 60 Sqft D.E. Filter. Had cartridge before. Should I switch this to cartridge or leave it D.E.?
Hayward OmniPL Salt system. With not much happing on this pool Im not sure I need automation so is the PL system ok or should I do Omni Logic still?
2 Skimmers- need to clarify they will run individual lines
4 Returns- not sure placement, guessing two on the lounge and 2 in the pool
Dual MD
Dolphin S200
Hayward Led light. Want to upgrade to 2 lights in pool.
1140 sqft broom finish concrete deck/patio
stone coping- most likely would nix this and just do cantilevered concrete and save $4500.

PB isn't a huge fan of puncturing the liner for bubblers but I really liked the bubbler on my old pool would either like to have lit bubblers or have lights put on the tanning ledge at least.

Also am 50/50 on doing deck jets. Old pool had standard jets and they were super loud and didn't really use them other than for show then turned them off. Would doing Laminar jets be quieter or would it be an even bigger waste of money?

I def want to add a heater. But im not sure whether to do gas or electric. I would heat the old pool even in the winter when it was in the 40s to 82 and would swim. I know an electric heater won't do this. But im not sure I will cold air swim much, especially doing a stand alone "portable" hot tub this go round. Heating the old pool in the winter would cost 5-600 a month in gas so id like to avoid those kind of bills. So I am swaying towards a heat pump this time. Im also having solar installed on the house so my electric bill should be close to nothing. A smaller but notable thing to mention is I literally have NO shade at all and even with shade in the old house the pool was almost too hot in the summer and we could do a cooler/heater combo if I went heat pump. But im worried about not being able to heat the pool effectively below 60 degrees. Or even if the HP works, it taking forever to do it.

Next question is the depth. It would cost 1200 bucks to make it 8 foot depth. But 30 feet long and the 7' swim lounge, will the pool be long enough to dive safely? If not I would leave the depth at 6 feet, but if I could safely dive in it I most likely would do the 8 foot depth. Next question would be what size shallow end would I have if I went that deep?

I think that has it all for now. Im meeting again with the PB next week to walk the property and go over everything in detail.

So pool build 2.0 hopefully begins soon!pool markup .jpgpool render 1.jpgpool render 2.jpgpool render 3.jpgpool render 4.jpgpool render 5.jpg
 

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TX2OBX said:
Im going for just a pool this time with no attached spa. (going to do a stand alone spa this time, far cheaper and IMO better).
Click to expand...
Good idea for year round spa use.

TX2OBX said:
Summary of bid

In Ground 10'x30' Vinyl Pool
3.5-6 foot deep.
7 foot tanning ledge.
Hayward 1.85 Tristar VSP.- Want to upgrade this to VS950
Hayward 60 Sqft D.E. Filter. Had cartridge before. Should I switch this to cartridge or leave it D.E.?
Hayward OmniPL Salt system. With not much happing on this pool Im not sure I need automation so is the PL system ok or should I do Omni Logic still?
2 Skimmers- need to clarify they will run individual lines
4 Returns- not sure placement, guessing two on the lounge and 2 in the pool
Dual MD
Dolphin S200
Hayward Led light. Want to upgrade to 2 lights in pool.
1140 sqft broom finish concrete deck/patio
stone coping- most likely would nix this and just do cantilevered concrete and save $4500.
Click to expand...
  • OmniPL is fine for you
  • If you liked cartridge then stay with it. DE gives you an MPV with more flexibility. There are pros and cons to both.
  • You have a good set of ideas from your prior pool
TX2OBX said:
PB isn't a huge fan of puncturing the liner for bubblers but I really liked the bubbler on my old pool would either like to have lit bubblers or have lights put on the tanning ledge at least.
Click to expand...
Lit bubblers don't age well. If you want a simple pool you should skip them and put your money elsewhere.

TX2OBX said:
Also am 50/50 on doing deck jets. Old pool had standard jets and they were super loud and didn't really use them other than for show then turned them off. Would doing Laminar jets be quieter or would it be an even bigger waste of money?
Click to expand...
Show me links for deck jets and laminars. I don't think there is a lot of difference.

TX2OBX said:
I def want to add a heater. But im not sure whether to do gas or electric. I would heat the old pool even in the winter when it was in the 40s to 82 and would swim. I know an electric heater won't do this. But im not sure I will cold air swim much, especially doing a stand alone "portable" hot tub this go round. Heating the old pool in the winter would cost 5-600 a month in gas so id like to avoid those kind of bills. So I am swaying towards a heat pump this time. Im also having solar installed on the house so my electric bill should be close to nothing. A smaller but notable thing to mention is I literally have NO shade at all and even with shade in the old house the pool was almost too hot in the summer and we could do a cooler/heater combo if I went heat pump. But im worried about not being able to heat the pool effectively below 60 degrees. Or even if the HP works, it taking forever to do it.
Click to expand...

Gas heater will not let you down in colder weather. HP might.

HP with solar PV will cost a lot less. If money is more important then swimming in the shoulder months then the HP is the way to go.

TX2OBX said:
Next question is the depth. It would cost 1200 bucks to make it 8 foot depth. But 30 feet long and the 7' swim lounge, will the pool be long enough to dive safely? If not I would leave the depth at 6 feet, but if I could safely dive in it I most likely would do the 8 foot depth. Next question would be what size shallow end would I have if I went that deep?
Click to expand...

You need to work with a pool designer on the depth profile of a 30' long pool that is diving approved. Then decide. See the attached document.

TX2OBX said:
So pool build 2.0 hopefully begins soon!
Click to expand...

Enjoyed watching 1.0 come together and 2.0 should be as interesting.
 

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  • 06-052ansi-standard-2.pdf
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Ok sorry for delay in reply to this, Thanks a bunch for the info above.

It's been pulling teeth to get a builder out here, apparently everyone is doing pools like it's 2021 still. Around me I can count 7 different pools being built, a couple by the company I have been working with the most (and who made renderings above) and was about to sign today with. Ive called the 4 different builders I've seen in the neighborhood and two only do fiberglass (out of my budget, on the phone they said they start at 80K even for a "patio pool" before any extras) 1 said he couldn't do it within my septic field restrictions and the last one never called back. So kept working with the one that provided renderings. Throughout the entire process I stressed home runs and 2" PVC and they seemed pretty chill about it.

Pool specs
-10x30 in-ground vinyl
-3'4-7' deep non diving. (I know 4' is recommended but picking battles here)
-Hayward c4030 filter (or D.E. 60 sqft my choice same price)
-if cartridge filter is selected a valve with drain pipe (rubber roll up tube) will be installed for lowering pool level.
-6 foot tanning ledge.
-250k BTU gas heater (upgrade to 400k for $900, not sure whether to or not this doesn't include gas line to equipment pad which will be about 1000 bucks)
-Hayward vs900 (upgrade to 950 for $650, gut says to do this)
-OmniPL automation with 25k salt cell (this is almost double the size of the pool should be fine right?)
-3 Hayward 320 LEDS with one on tanning ledge ($950 upgrade to do this vs one large led in deep end)
-Poly walls and braces
-2 skimmers*
-4 returns (two on lounge)
-main drains optional but recommended with heater (their words not sure on this)
-deep end ladder.
-2" plumbing where possible**
-Brick coping stones ($4500 extra, but I think really ups the curb appeal of a vinyl pool)
-240 sqft broom finish concrete included
-600 sqft broom finish concrete patio $6000 extra
-Dolphin robotic pool cleaner


*The hang up comes with the home runs for the skimmers. Today they flat out said they are not doing this. Their reasoning (this is a direct quote from the builder) "the skimmer home run is low in the skimmer and if you have vinyl over steps, it ends up having to be plugged because it will drain it out and not allow you to have water high enough, we learned this the hard way"

**They also keep mentioning in the contract and in person they will do 2" plumbing "where they can" and there are certain fittings that only take 1.5". From my last pool I know the filter and pump could take 2" or 2.5", the only fitting I recall being 1.5" was the return which is on a loop anyway which I would expect to be 2" and just reduced down to 1.5" at the return fitting.

I have not responded to these two issues yet as I wanted to run it by y'all and also sleep on it as up until today they have been super chill about these things, but when it came time to sign and hand over a draw these popped up, which put my radar up immediately.

My gut response to them on the home runs is to not have the skimmer on the tanning ledge and just have one in the shallow and one in the deep (Im presuming one on each side). It feels more like a cheap out than a real issue, and they just said that in hopes I will move on from it.
The 2" PVC thing "where we can" also seems pretty vague and I would like it to be spelled out more clearly before signing.

Ultimately I probably should hold off and find another builder as this seems like a prediction for how the build will go, but when I have such a hard time finding anyone who can do it within my septic field perimeters, and beyond that getting anyone to call me back at all it feels like this is the only shot at a pool, and I could blow it if I press hard on these issues, they obviously don't need my business. But as the one who has to live with it/sign the checks I feel well with in my rights to have it done a certain way.


Thanks for input y'all!
 
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TX2OBX said:
My gut response to them on the home runs is to not have the skimmer on the tanning ledge and just have one in the shallow and one in the deep (Im presuming one on each side). It feels more like a cheap out than a real issue, and they just said that in hopes I will move on from it.
Click to expand...

I would not put a skimmer on the tanning ledge. 2 skimmers on the deep and shallow sides. Skimmers should be placed into the prevailing wind as much as possible.

I like skimmers on one side of a rectangular pools and the returns on the other side. That sets up a good circulation across the pool.

TX2OBX said:
The 2" PVC thing "where we can" also seems pretty vague and I would like it to be spelled out more clearly before signing.
Click to expand...

If a device requires 1.5" pipe then reduce the 2" pipe to 1.5" at such device. Us as many 1.5" to 2" couplers as needed.

I think that is all you need to say instead of the "where we can". Then it is up to you to specify devices that take 2" pipe where you can.
 
Just a thought - given your space constraints and the drawings you showed, I would consider making the pool an "L" and having the sunshelf off to the right (looking at your first top down drawing) in the short end of the L . You might have to make the pool longer to keep the L 15 feet away from the septic (assuming 15 feet is the closest to septic you can go), but I think it might be worth it to have the extra length.

For what it's worth, I live in Maryland and have a heat pump (no choice in my case). It keeps the pool warm from mid-May (sometimes a bit earlier) to early October, with further days of heat here and there the rest of October. We wouldn't generally swim outside of those months anyway due to air temp, so it works fine for us and is reasonably cost effective. It does heat slowly - for me, with a 40K gallon pool - maybe a degree every hour or so while the air is warmer than 70 degrees. It will work a little when it's 60-70 but certainly won't get the water to the 85 degrees we like :) If our house had natural gas, though, I probably would have gone that way just for the dependability and the occasional crazy Thanksgiving swim or something :)

And I would definitely go 4' shallow end. There shouldn't be any battle to pick - just tell them that is the shallow end depth that you want!
 
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Ope. Excuse me. Just lemme squeeze through *sucks in belly*. Excuse me. Excuse me. How do you do Ma'am ? Ahhhh. That's better. Just getting a seat while they're still available.

chair-thumbs-up.gif


:epds:
 
TX2OBX said:
Ultimately I probably should hold off and find another builder as this seems like a prediction for how the build will go,
Click to expand...
I don't like your gut feeling. Not one bit. I trust your gut and I barely know him.


PCR said:
And I would definitely go 4' shallow end. There shouldn't be any battle to pick - just tell them that is the shallow end depth that you want!
Click to expand...
+1.

I knew I hated 4 ft wall / 3.5 ft water height from build #1. I super hated it. But I was doing fiberglass stairs for the dogs and the stairs available during the shortages were 4ft. I lost a full year waiting for the stairs, I certainly couldn't be picky about them. I didn't want to add a liner covered step inside the pool to gain 6 more inches of water height, so I have the shallow - shallow end again and still hate it.
 
TX2OBX said:
Today they flat out said they are not doing this. Their reasoning (this is a direct quote from the builder) "the skimmer home run is low in the skimmer and if you have vinyl over steps, it ends up having to be plugged because it will drain it out and not allow you to have water high enough, we learned this the hard way"
Click to expand...
Home run just means running a separate line from each skimmer to the pump rather than connecting the lines together underground.

So, I think that there is a miscommunication on this issue.
 
My 18 inch deep bench is fading much faster than the rest of the pool. Food for thought.
 

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JamesW said:
In my opinion, I do not think that a tanning ledge makes a lot of sense on a vinyl pool.

The vinyl will not do well with any sort of chair or lounge.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with @JamesW. You should really think carefully about adding a tanning ledge. A friend of mine has one and regrets it, and I can understand why. If you plan on using plastic lounge chairs, be aware that the vinyl can tear, and those chairs are very heavy to move, so they usually end up staying put. Plus, a tanning ledge takes up valuable space in your pool. Instead, I opted for a long bench, and I have to say it's the best decision I made. People love sitting on it, especially with the jets I installed along the wall, which are great when the heater is on. Your build is similar to mine—check out the details in my signature. Also, as @wireform mentioned, pump unions are crucial. Feel free to ask any other questions you have. Good luck!
 
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I'll go one further and say I don't understand tanning ledges on any pool. The patio is for tanning, the pool is for swimming.

I can get on and off a sturdy float without getting wet, for free, and without giving up any pool real estate. Like this one ; Intex lounger
 
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Good notes on the tanning ledge, I absolutely loved it on my old pool, but that one being fiberglass I wasn’t worried about durability (liner tearing). I had been questioning whether to have it one this build or not. A bench is something I hadn’t thought of. Especially with some jets on it, that could be cool, Would I run it down the length of the pool? I’d still want to do the vinyl over steps, I’m not a big fan of the fiberglass steps on vinyl pools.

I think I’ve been dealing with a salesmen type not really someone that knows more than the basics of pools. Every question is “ I have to talk to the owner” or “I have to as the construction team”. I agreed what was mentioned on here and brought up that there was a miscommunication on the skimmer issue, and not sure why 2” isn’t the norm for the build. I also asked about the salt cell size to make sure it’s the 25k model not the small, 15k model. Hopefully after a long spelled out email we will get on the same page. But the tanning ledge is a new one to talk about, originally I have never wanted to have another pool without it, I never put lounge chairs on the old pool most likely wouldn’t here. But I do have a 90 pound Spanish mastiff that loves water and the tanning ledge might be asking for trouble. Hopefully get all this ironed out soon I’m excited to see excavators back there.
 
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TX2OBX said:
Would I run it down the length of the pool?
Click to expand...
Up to you. Mine is 8ft and I can sit with my legs fully extended down the bench and 2 more people can still sit side saddle at the other end.

Screenshot_20240627_083901_Gallery.jpg
 
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TX2OBX said:
But I do have a 90 pound Spanish mastiff that loves water and the tanning ledge might be asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

Vinyl liners and dogs with sharp nails do not mix well. Watch out for the dog on the pool stairs.
 
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Still waiting to hear back from them on the plumbing. They are urging me to sign, but im not going to until this is straightened out. Once we work out that im going to ask on cost of just vinyl over steps and a bench vs the tanning ledge. If it's a cost savings I will most likely do it. If its about the same honestly I think I will leave it despite the negatives (but am glad to know them, such as fading faster and keeping dogs off) as far as the doggo is concerned I most likely will install a pool fence to keep her out of it.


But just from googling options and ideas as well as searching builds on here. I have seen where corner steps with a full width bench could be done which I kind of like. It's less "upscale" looking than the tanning ledge, but does net 5 more feet of swimming space. which on a smaller pool space is at a premium, and as mentioned above I could have a couple of the return jets put there and make it almost like a spa.

I was also considering the full width steps with a bench in the deep end going the full width.

Last option I was going to ask PB was the full width steps with a full length bench running down one side of the pool. Just not sure what that would cost vs the tanning ledge. But I am going for a more social pool, so seating in the water is something to consider. For lounging I have these uber nice "Bote" hang out chairs that are super stable and comfortable. So practically speaking one of these options is prob the better pick. I just really dig the tanning ledge look. This isn't a forever home, I only plan to be here the next 3-5 years.

Out of those options im not sure which is best. I like all the options for different reasons.
 
OK new set of questions. In a permit holding pattern with a potential start date of Oct. Trying to iron out a contract with everything spelled out from the beginning. How Best would it be to position everything skimmer and return wise? I have 3 potential options, but wanted to get opinions, I took the drawings and wrote in pen options they gave me. (R=return L=light SK=skimmer). they are favoring both skimmers to one side as then all suction is on one side and all return runs down the other. But Id like to do whatever is best here.

Im also doing a 10 foot wide bench across the deep end. I asked about doing a couple therapy jets there, valved on their own return line (to be able to turn them on and off via actuator). They said they didn't know of any options that work with vinyl other than just a couple more return jets. I look on google for spa manifolds and everything says gunuite. Is there any spa jet manifolds that would work on a vinyl wall?

Thanks.
 

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My vote is below.

I assume the prevailing winds come from the right to the left?

I know nothing about spa jet manifolds for vinyl pools. My personal opinion is you want to minimize penetrations on vinyl pools and spa jet manifolds add a lot as well as plumbing behind the pool wall.

1724863451255.png
 

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