Guidance needed, 3 years using TFP and I am at a loss (Solved)

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6:05 am

FC 25
CC 0
Temp 77

I am exhausted and don't have the time to add chlorine all day today. Going to add 32 oz right now and and check it when I get time. I really thought this was the end.
 
jsnpckns said:
6:05 am

FC 25
CC 0
Temp 77

I am exhausted and don't have the time to add chlorine all day today. Going to add 32 oz right now and and check it when I get time. I really thought this was the end.
Click to expand...
Your previous OCLT was 2.5ppm lost, this is 2.0 loss. So that is a positive step.
You have done a good job of cleaning all the “hidden” areas. It just may need another day or 2 of SLAM level. I would not do a OCLT tonight and just keep SLAM level FC up the best you can and then do a OCLT on Thursday night,
 
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If you’re using a 5ml sample the margin of it being off is greater.
Use a 10ml sample for oclt.
If you’re low on reagents order them now & do a true oclt when they come.
Until then - got any water features? Overflow? Auto fill? If so give them a good scrub & flush.

Going through your logs I noticed some things
- slam level for cya of 80ppm is 31ppm fc.
A cya of anywhere between 70 & 80 counts as 80 for chlorination purposes. Always round up if between two lines.

You’re in southern ms- the uv has ramped up - season is almost in full swing.
Your swcg produces approximately 3ppm fc per day in your pool @30% w/ 12 hours of runtime.
3ppm fc loss per day is not unusual at this time of the season.

After your slam is complete you can do an overnight chlorine gain test to compare with poolmath estimations on output if you’re concerned your swcg is under performing.

Also- you can add a log for your swcg settings instead of putting it in a note.
Hit + add chemicals, hit choose chemical type, select swg & put in run time & percentage.
This way the summary page will keep track of the fc that should have been added- it will look like this
IMG_9701.pngIMG_9702.png
 
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Mdragger88 said:
If you’re using a 5ml sample the margin of it being off is greater.
Use a 10ml sample for oclt.
If you’re low on reagents order them now & do a true oclt when they come.
Until then - got any water features? Overflow? Auto fill? If so give them a good scrub & flush.

Going through your logs I noticed some things
- slam level for cya of 80ppm is 31ppm fc.
A cya of anywhere between 70 & 80 counts as 80 for chlorination purposes. Always round up if between two lines.

You’re in southern ms- the uv has ramped up - season is almost in full swing.
Your swcg produces approximately 3ppm fc per day in your pool @30% w/ 12 hours of runtime.
3ppm fc loss per day is not unusual at this time of the season.

After your slam is complete you can do an overnight chlorine gain test to compare with poolmath estimations on output if you’re concerned your swcg is under performing.

Also- you can add a log for your swcg settings instead of putting it in a note.
Hit + add chemicals, hit choose chemical type, select swg & put in run time & percentage.
This way the summary page will keep track of the fc that should have been added- it will look like this
Click to expand...
I have been doing 10 ml, except for the one test at 7 yesterday to check my last bleach addition at 5.
I ordered new chems Monday.

I have no water features. Pool shell, 3 returns, 1 skimmer, pump, filter, swcg. I cleaned the pump pot when I cleaned the filters but I didn't check it yesterday.

My CYA was around 80 before the recent storm and I had to pump quite a bit of water off. I retested it along with pH before restarting the slam, and it was more 60-70. I re-poured the test like 5 times. Should I treat it as 80 and adjust?

I am pretty comfortable with what happened in the original situation. Using old bleach lead to this. I didn't adjust the swcg fast enough with the warming, used old bleach to "catch up", and here we are.

I can usually stay under 25% swcg, but I haven't put my shade sails back up yet thus year.

The OCGT is next on my list after exiting this SLAM for sure. No way to understand that number without a good OCLT, I understand.

I will look at logging the swcg as chem. I started doing it in notes... I am not sure why, just tracking it as a setting I guess.

@HermanTX
Will do.

Thank you both.
 
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Raided the wife's art stash and replacing my sample bottle. I just realized its the same one I've been using for over 2 years. Comparing the new one and the old one, there is definite buildup on the inside, even though I always rinse after sampling/testing. Not saying this is part of the problem, but it can't hurt. I know good testing starts with clean "glassware".1713362191916.png
 
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Since you’ve exchanged water You should re test your cya & adjust your slam level accordingly.
I think you’re almost there! It sounds like you’ve really covered all the bases.
I suspect your next oclt will pass.
Even though slamming isn’t fun at least it’s probably not gonna be a long one.
Isn’t it great to know that with your testing you confirmed your suspicions early by doing an oclt & are knocking it out instead of waiting until the problem was super obvious/a swamp? Its nice to have that level of control!
PS- I love the summary function in poolmath! Its so helpful to see trends/ remember what this time last year was like etc.
 
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Mdragger88 said:
Since you’ve exchanged water You should re test your cya & adjust your slam level accordingly.
I think you’re almost there! It sounds like you’ve really covered all the bases.
I suspect your next oclt will pass.
Even though slamming isn’t fun at least it’s probably not gonna be a long one.
Isn’t it great to know that with your testing you confirmed your suspicions early by doing an oclt & are knocking it out instead of waiting until the problem was super obvious/a swamp? Its nice to have that level of control!
PS- I love the summary function in poolmath! Its so helpful to see trends/ remember what this time last year was like etc.
Click to expand...
I have tried to be as thorough as I can be. Going to brush some more... at some point today. I really am out of ideas for any more hiding places. I think it is like HermanTX said, and it just needs to cycle through finishing off what's left and filtering.

I hope it passes. My type A anxiety has to keep reminding me that I have FC, and nothing bad is going to happen lol. Just more work and attention I guess until it passes. I am glad that I went with my gut though and restarted the SLAM for sure. I am for sure happy to be dealing with this now rather than playing catch up for a month and then having to do it when Summer is in full swing.

I love the level of control and understanding that TFP has given me. I expound its merits whenever someone I know with a pool has issues. In fact it was only yesterday I was speaking to a friend who is talking about getting ready to hire a pool builder, and I was like TFP NOW!

TBH, I had not even looked at the summary until about a month ago. I don't know why... just never did. It is really nice to do comparisons. I never hesitate to re-up my sub to poolMath. Its funny too, because when I first started using it (for a very short time), I also never really paid attention to how it can calculate the ppm/%/runtime on the swcg. I was just using it to plug in numbers from my tests. I had tracked down a water treatment equation: LBS gas = Vol. MGal x ppm x 8.34 lbs/gal and looked up my IC40 100%/24 hour theoretical production and used that to figure my pump percentage for my target FC. Then after a few weeks I was tooling through the app and I was like "Oh... well now I feel silly".
 
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jsnpckns said:
Thank you for taking the time to look for that. The 12.5% at the pool store has a Jan 30 2024 date stamp, and has been on par. I have one gallon left, and I think it will get me through today and tonight's OCLT. I will drive out there and check the dates. Definitely will save me some money if today's process doesn't cut it.

Spent the morning since my post cleaning.

I couldn't find the key for the light covers. I don't want to force it and chance breaking the light or the sleeve. I dipped a narrow headed nylon brush in some bleach and got into the nooks as best I could. I will order one from Amazon or Jandy if tonight's OCLT fails.

I took the eyelets and threading out of all the returns, washed them in bleach, scrubbed them, scrubbed the inner threads of the return sleeve, and put everything back together. One eyelet out of the three was pointed a little high - I use this one to push water over the sundeck shallow area. It's a balancing act between too low to push water where I want and too high and disturbing the surface.

I managed to carefully pop off the skimmer plate cover. No visible algae, mostly brown staining. It got the same treatment as the eyelets. The face of the plate did have some white sealant on it. Mainly around the stainless screw heads, but some smeared across the plate. Some peeled off and some of it disintegrated into a cloud.

I scrubbed the inside of the skimmer mouth, neck, sides, the weir door (front and back as best I could. I don't know how to remove this. The back has some sort of foam float that isn't Styrofoam).

I scrubbed the critter cover plate for the skimmer (it's a wife thing...) and disassembled the floating thermometer that resides in the skimmer and cleaned it.

I used the big pool brush and brushed all the horizontal surfaces and walls again. Then I got back in and hand brushed the shallow sundeck, steps, benches, and waterline. I got as deep as I could hand brushing on the deep end benches without submerging my head.

Hopefully the extra scrubbing and mixing the water helped get to any dead spots.thin

Oh and turned the lights off for now, and had only 2 or 3 bugs in the pool with a few in the skimmer sock. It is about time for a blackout anyway since termites will probably be swarming soon.
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I've read here many times about how to go about hunting down "hidden" algae. And I've given that advice myself many times. But I don't think that advice has ever been followed so thoroughly, so carefully. Really, really great job!
 
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So... when I was reading HermanTX said about the cya level, I was looking at the difference in the calculator, and I decided to try the last 2 bleach additions as if at 80 CYA. I did not add any stabilizer. So my addition at 12 pm yesterday was to aim for 31, as was my 7 pm addition, both 96 oz of bleach. I left it at that, went to bed. Just got up, and checked it expecting to continue the slam tonight and do an oclt overnight tonight. This was a 5 ml sample.

FC 30
CC 0
Temp 77

So, I know its not accurate or correct for an oclt, but I think I'm getting close. I will continue the slam like yesterday for 31 target, and do my oclt tonight. I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Adding 12 oz of 10%.

@Dirk thank you sir! Don't want to have to repeat this lol. Makes me appreciate how simple our pool is. I love looking at the grander pools here, and sometimes I wish our pool was a little deeper, but I don't want to take care of one with so many bells and whistles when it comes to this. Hopefully this will inspire someone with the same issue to dedicate the extra elbow grease when they are going through the same thing.
 
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Way back in my post about the list of things that might be going on, I left one out. Sometimes in can be difficult to determine the amount of water a pool holds. When that number is off, all the calculations for dosing can be off. Test results will still be as good as they get, but you can use test results to determine if your water volume number is off, when all else fails.

So if you know you don't have algae, and you know your chlorine is fresh, and you dose liquid chlorine according to pool math, but then don't get the expected bounce in FC, then you can suspect your water volume number. If the same thing happens with a pH adjustment, then that's further proof of this volume number issue.

At that point, you can use the data to recalculate your volume number.

I don't know if that applies to what you've been doing, but it's something to be aware of if you just can't make the numbers work. It's another tool in the ol' TFP toolbox. The one time I had my pool empty, I put a decent water meter on the hose I used to fill it back up. That's how I got 12300 for my freeform pool. if you ever find yourself staring at your empty pool, come on back and we'll teach you how to calculate the true volume as you fill it.
 
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So, I had to go onto Thursday pool's website and look at spec sheets, and they list 8,423 as the volume. They don't however qualify that in any manner as to where the water level is for that volume. I will say, using 8400, over the last 3 years, has led to fairly accurate dosing of CYA, settings on the SWCG, etc. That is definitely something that I would like to know. Taking measurements and doing math would be close, and using VERY rough triangles and rectangles, I know that around 8400 is close. If I ever find myself in an empty pool situation (I honestly hope not, that usually means something bad, expensive or both.) I will swing by and get that info.

So you think my initial doses might be off from dosing for 8400 but having a few hundred gallons more?
 
jsnpckns said:
So you think my initial doses might be off from dosing for 8400 but having a few hundred gallons more?
Click to expand...
No. I was just adding to your knowledge base something to consider if/when numbers are not jiving.

If you've been successfully testing and dosing, and after dosing you get the expected change in pool chemistry, then your volume number is fine (or at least close enough). Put another way, getting the expected dosing result is the primary reason for knowing your water volume in the first place, so if your testing/dosing is working, then the actual water volume number, or striving to get a more accurate one, is really not critical.

The goal is to get to FC "X" and pH "Y", etc, when you need to. If can already do that, then there is no need to fret about the water volume.
 
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Just before midnight, 10 ml sample
FC 28
CC 0

5 am, 10 ml sample
FC 27
CC 0

I am going to count that, even with the short window. I have about 10 or 20 drops left in my chems with replacements shipped. Supposed to get some rain Sat/Sun, so I guess I will check it Sunday night give it time to drift down? The window is short because I had to grab another sample at midnight because just as I was falling asleep I remembered 5 ml wasn't accurate enough for OCLT. I am glad I did. I am surprised a bit how far apart the 11 pm and 12 am samples were.
 

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