New Build - DFW
- Thread starter amindu786
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 53,109
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
That is what I can see in the pictures. Those are left out to bond to the deck and electrical bonding.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,197
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
A,
Sure. I see a lot of attention to the specs around aesthetics and design preferences/choices in this type of thread. Unfortunately there's very little discussion about the commercial terms and conditions. These obligate both parties and are usually crafted by the builder's attorney. Naturally they are very one-way most of the time in the builder's favor. But I've often seen that owners can make significant changes to get a fair contract. If everything goes well this doesn't matter. When things go wrong it ends up with the owner in a very poor situation. There a lot of details and I need to say I'm not an attorney. Just a project manager with billions of $ worth of contracts. So I've picked up a few things. A pool project isn't simple even though it's not like building a chemical plant. I tend to look at the following:
I hope this is helpful albeit late for your project.
Chris
Sure. I see a lot of attention to the specs around aesthetics and design preferences/choices in this type of thread. Unfortunately there's very little discussion about the commercial terms and conditions. These obligate both parties and are usually crafted by the builder's attorney. Naturally they are very one-way most of the time in the builder's favor. But I've often seen that owners can make significant changes to get a fair contract. If everything goes well this doesn't matter. When things go wrong it ends up with the owner in a very poor situation. There a lot of details and I need to say I'm not an attorney. Just a project manager with billions of $ worth of contracts. So I've picked up a few things. A pool project isn't simple even though it's not like building a chemical plant. I tend to look at the following:
- Are the specs clear. What if something isn't available?
- How are design changes dealt with?
- Can the contract be terminated by either party and what reason's and remedies are defined
- Payment terms should be fair and well defined milestones that meet quality requirements also
- Fair payment terms means the builder isn't payed way ahead of progress
- What are the warranty provisions and how is it implemented?
- What are obligations of both parties for start up of the pool?
- Performance test should be defined and passed before final payment. Doesn't have to be complex. Just simply demonstrate everything works and the pool holds water plus specs are met.
- Are there indemnities and how are they handled. If present they should be two-way.
- Final clean up and waste disposal obligations
- Hidden conditions
- Who does permitting?
- Release of liens from subs where used
I hope this is helpful albeit late for your project.
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,197
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I just had that done on my pool. It's a very common practice for shotcrete or gunite. Works well so long as the guy on the gun is careful not to cause more cave ins. Your soil looks like it sticks together nicely. Mine is 85% sand an more prone to cave-ins plus very close to a house structure.
Chris
Thanks I want to address some of this so you can provide your opinions, i tried to negotiate the contract as best as i could.
- Are the specs clear. What if something isn't available? Specs are clear and itemized, however not discussed in writing but i dont believe they are any supply chain issues, atleast per PB. All the equipment is fairly common Jandy equipment.
- How are design changes dealt with? They were pretty flexible and no cost. I had 2 change orders after contract was signed. I increased the size of the pool before signing. While excavating i had them increase the water depth in the tanning ledge and adjust stair height accordingly. No issues. Had them remove a bubbler and add a sheer descent to my retaining wall.
- Can the contract be terminated by either party and what reason's and remedies are defined. I had a 3 day right to terminate, now i imagine i would be in default.
- Payment terms should be fair and well defined milestones that meet quality requirements also. Fair payment terms means the builder isn't payed way ahead of progress. So i made sure to hold enough back but i think some of it is front loaded. 30% At Excavation or Forming. 30% At Shotcrete. 30% At Plaster. 10% After pool is filled/running passed final inspection/final punch list.
- What are the warranty provisions and how is it implemented? Limited Warranties - Pool Company warrants its work to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of one year from the date the pool is plastered. Pool Company further warrants the pool structure will remain structurally sound for the period of time the pool is owned by the Buyer. The term structurally sound means that the swimming pool is capable of retaining water, and in the event of failure to do so, Pool Company will within this period, repair the pool structure so that it will retain water.
All pool equipment and accessories installed as provided for herein, carry a warranty as provided by the manufacturer of the same.
Buyer shall notify Pool Company in writing of any alleged defects or breach of the above warranty within a reasonable time after discovery, in no event no later than 15 days after discovery: such notice shall be sent to Pool Company at its place of business set forth on the other side of this contract - What are obligations of both parties for start up of the pool? Not discussed in contract. But they have someone come for a week or couple weeks or something. "Startup and Pool School Startup service and plaster conditioning. Pool School provided once water is balanced."
- Performance test should be defined and passed before final payment. Doesn't have to be complex. Just simply demonstrate everything works and the pool holds water plus specs are met. Final payment will be made once everything works, after final punchlist and passed final city inspection, would this satisfy the performance test?
- Are there indemnities and how are they handled. If present they should be two-way. Not discussed
- Final clean up and waste disposal obligations. On the Pool Company although i am charged for it. Job site cleanup (Large) Costs associated with maintaining the job site cleanliness per city code.
- Hidden conditions. Unsure
- Who does permitting? They pulled the permits from the city and helped send me whatever I needed for HOA approval
- Release of liens from subs where used. During our email correspondence i asked for lien waivers and they were fine with providing that, but i dont know if i am supposed to ask for it when i make each payment or before final payment? Like they just did excavation and steel, should i be asking for waivers from those 2 subs? In the contract it states ""For your protection, all checks must be made payable to: “Pool Company Name” to ensure that all lien releases, warranties and guarantees granted to you under this contract are met.""
Last edited:
Please see pics, per the steel description in the contract that should be double wrapped skimmer cavity.
Was checking to make sure that these bars were not terminated at the skimmer and that they rolled them past as a complete unit.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,197
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Most of the time I've seen release done at the end after all construction. But I have seen it were several sub's release were sent when they were complete with their part of the work. So I think you can do it either way. The key is to have all sub's release before you make final to the builder. Looks like you are covered better than most. Did you modify the written agreement or did it come this way? Payment terms are reasonable only I would have required the term "successful and in compliance to spec." for each milestone.
Good luck and looks like you're gonna have a great looking pool!
Chris
Thanks, this was all in the contract the only thing I modified was the payment terms, I would pay at end of day vs beginning and made it clear I wanted lien waivers before I would give final check. As with anything I am apprehensive just because there are a lot of horror stories in my area, but fingers crossed this company is an honest one. The owner replies to text messages and calls me back. I sent him the photo of the rebar being done a couple hours ago and thanked him. He replied back an hour later and said “inspection tomorrow and flash in the afternoon”. I doubt most builders would reply on the weekend.
So rather than flashing the pool they decided to go ahead and just do the whole thing. Knocked it out in like 3.5 hours. The timeline has been crazy, we excavated on Thursday and just 4 days later the pool has been shot.
- Jul 17, 2019
- 3,730
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Nice. Looks like mother nature will take care of your watering, at least for the 1st 24 hours.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,197
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Nice when things work out! Keep it wet for the next 30 days and your concrete will be 40% stronger than if it drys out. Easy to do with a temporary hose and sprinkler. If you're not around you can get one of those battery operated timer valves.
Chris
Lol yup
Yup i bought a sled sprinkler and a regular sprinkler to set on each side, and plan on turning it on for 20-30 mins 3 times a day.
Any thoughts on equipment, i currently have the Aquacal Heat/Cooler (110K btu), should I stick with that or look at the Raypack Crosswind Inverter (62K btu) as an option as well?
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,197
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Have you looked at a gas heater? Or is there no natural gas available?
Not doing natural gas. I am just looking to extend the season, so start in early May until end of October or something. We have no spa and gas would have cost a lot more.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,197
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Only reason I bring it up is the equipment is usually cheaper and you're looking at about 15 hr to heat 20 deg vs 4 hr for a 400K Btu gas. Operating cost of the heat pump will definitely be less. It's all personal preference so no right/wrong just want to be sure you know heat up times. In your climate you could be looking at 30 degree for extended season. If this makes you curious you could get a gas plumber to give you an estimate to run gas to the pad. I'd be very surprised if it's much more than $1000.
I hope this helps.
Chris
Gotcha will ask the PB tomorrow, our natural gas meter is on the other side of the house so I imagine they would need to run the line around the house prob couple hundred feet since the equipment pad is directly across the meter but I don’t think they can bury the line and run it through my driveway.
We ran just over 100' thru the our house. Used Tracpipe CounterStrike corrugated stainless gas piping. Was able to get it thru the house with only one fitting/union. Had the gas company install a 2psi meter, ran 2psi in this line thru the house, to a step down regulator at the pool heater. I can add pictures of both the meter side and the heater side if you would like.
-Tom
-Tom