- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
pH Pure - Anyone using one?
- Thread starter tradewinds
- Start date
TW,
Some people need more pH control than others..
I do not find it to hard to add 20 or so oz. of MA once a week, so not something that I will be buying...
I assume your pool is new, so it will use a little more acid the first few months.. I would suggest that you see if you really need it before buying one.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Some people need more pH control than others..
I do not find it to hard to add 20 or so oz. of MA once a week, so not something that I will be buying...
I assume your pool is new, so it will use a little more acid the first few months.. I would suggest that you see if you really need it before buying one.
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
So, they are claiming it is 1/5 the cost of MA and baking soda.
Not sure how many years the payback would be.
2-3 50-lbs tank refills per year at $1/lb = $100-$150 year plus initial investment of ~$1100.
I don't know yet, but I would assume 1/gal of MA month and 1 bag baking soda every 2 months?
I really don't like that I keep breathing in the MA no matter how hard I try not to. So, that may be a benefit worth paying for?
Not sure how many years the payback would be.
2-3 50-lbs tank refills per year at $1/lb = $100-$150 year plus initial investment of ~$1100.
I don't know yet, but I would assume 1/gal of MA month and 1 bag baking soda every 2 months?
I really don't like that I keep breathing in the MA no matter how hard I try not to. So, that may be a benefit worth paying for?
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,019
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Most tfp pools rarely require baking soda additions.
Pool Care Basics
If you have high ta fill water you may still need to add acid.
“pH can also be lowered with CO2 injection although CO2 injection does not lower TA at the same time like acid does.”
from here
www.troublefreepool.com
Pentair has a device similar, the intellichem cO2 that I believe would tie in with your automation. Not sure of the cost difference.
There’s several threads here about c02 injection discussing how it works and what it does & doesn’t do along with it’s ongoing costs.
www.troublefreepool.com
Pool Care Basics
If you have high ta fill water you may still need to add acid.
“pH can also be lowered with CO2 injection although CO2 injection does not lower TA at the same time like acid does.”
from here
PH - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
There’s several threads here about c02 injection discussing how it works and what it does & doesn’t do along with it’s ongoing costs.
Google search results
www.troublefreepool.com
- Jan 7, 2012
- 2,123
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
What TA are you targeting? TA down to 50 is perfectly fine. As you approach a TA of 50, be judicious with MA additions and let the pH stabilize in the high 7s. A non-trichlor pool will seldom (likely never) need baking soda. In 14 years of pool ownership, I've never added baking soda.
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
My TA target is 70.
I do have a lot of water features: bubbler, waterfall, three laminar jets I'd like to run as desired without having to restrict their use.
- Jan 7, 2012
- 2,123
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You would benefit from a lower TA of 50-60. Stop adding baking soda. Reduce the amount of MA added as you approach 50, just enough to get your pH into the high 7s.
I have installed a lot of CO2. The claims on the website dont match what I have seen in our local market. I am not saying they are wrong, chemically they are correct. The application tends to see increase in TA over time.
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This is somewhat confusing. PoolMath states the ideal TA is 60-80. This is the reason I've targeted 70.
Update: OK, I get what you're suggesting. This is to accommodate for more aeration.
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I dint notice this post. Co2 wont solve the issues with the bubblers etc. In fact it will likely cause more problems than it solves. I too would favour a lower than usual TA.
You wont need much baking soda if ever, if you’re following TFP.
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Yes, following PoolMath recommendations. Sometimes it calls to add baking soda.
I will try the recommended approach above of TA at 50 and pH set to high 7s (7.6).
- Jan 7, 2012
- 2,123
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
PoolMath is a calculator. Don't arbitrarily follow its advice.
pH will likely stabilize ~7.8, maybe a little higher, which is perfectly fine. Let the TA and pH achieve equilibrium.
PH TA Relationship - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
Managing pH and Total Alkalinity - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
My pH keeps going to 8 or more. PoolMath may be a calculator but isn't its purpose to calculate the relationships for the recommend and ideal ranges? As mentioned, I would like to continue using all these expensive water features that were put in and automate the adding of the MA for TA/pH if it means that will keep being impacted from the aeration.PoolMath is a calculator. Don't arbitrarily follow its advice.
pH will likely stabilize ~7.8, maybe a little higher, which is perfectly fine. Let the TA and pH achieve equilibrium.
PH TA Relationship - Further Reading
Managing pH and Total Alkalinity - Further Reading
Yes but there are way too many variables that PM can't know, such as climate, time of season, and fill water parameters.
Then two neighboring pools may respond differently, much less 2 across the country. So you need to know what it's reccomending and why, in case you need to override it for your situation.
Chances are your pool will land in the ideal category as it's how most with your basic setup respond. But there is no 'more ok' than ok, so in range is Ok enough.
Is the pH going to 8.0 or higher than that? It may sound like a small difference but it isn’t. If it stays at 8.0 for a while during the winter, it’s probably not a bad thing. You can wait until it gets to 8.1-8.2 to gently lower it back to 7.8.
The thing with poolmath is that the “ideal” range of one parameter is tied to the ideal ranges of all the others, but poolmath doesn’t know that. There is a LOT of variation in acceptable ranges and so while poolmath is setup to recommend a pH of 7.6-7.8, a pH of 7.2 and a pH of 7.9 are perfectly acceptable depending on what all the other parameters are reading and what chemistry goals you have planned.
For example, I replastered my pool right before winter and so I wanted to make sure the CSI stays positive over the winter to help ensure the plaster cured safely before I closed the pool. Since I can’t control the water temperature, I increased the calcium level enough to keep the CSI above zero. I also had no stabilizer in the water (freshly filled) and so rather than adding in a bunch of CYA, I’m floating some trichlor pucks in the water to keep it chlorinated and add CYA slowly over the winter. The trichlor also reduces pH a bit and so I increased the TA out of range to compensate for the extra acid being added from the trichlor. Poolmath doesn’t know any of those details and so it gives me big red warnings even though the pool is great. I have no more plaster dust after the first 2 weeks of replaster, the pH is rock solid at 7.8 without me having to add any acid, and the cold water is keeping the CSI down so I don’t get any scale buildup. I’ll end up replacing a bunch of water with rainwater over the winter and so the extra calcium will get removed as I open the pool up in spring time.
All that to say the app is just a calculator, not something to blindly follow.
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
My CSI has always been in the range where PM says congratulations on that one all the time. Does that mean everything has been all good? I can only reach up to pH 8.0 with Taylor kit. I don't know how far over.
I thought PM was holistic and it can (whether it does or not) know geographic location and by system clock knows month and therefore season conditions. Several services can provide that data for the app. It can have a set of parameters to get your fill water. But, in the end it is the water being tested continuously for that it should be self adjusting for. I actually find it hard for it not to know something since it can ask for as much as measure devices/methods we can use to provide to it.
I understand if one has some particular condition and preference like new plaster and PM doesn't have mode to set the relationships for those (e.g. need positive CSI). But with just ensuring the pool water is well balanced, it should be self adjusting by looking across all the input parameters.
With all the AI advancements of recent, looks like PM would benefit from a LLM of sorts to make it intelligent.
I thought PM was holistic and it can (whether it does or not) know geographic location and by system clock knows month and therefore season conditions. Several services can provide that data for the app. It can have a set of parameters to get your fill water. But, in the end it is the water being tested continuously for that it should be self adjusting for. I actually find it hard for it not to know something since it can ask for as much as measure devices/methods we can use to provide to it.
I understand if one has some particular condition and preference like new plaster and PM doesn't have mode to set the relationships for those (e.g. need positive CSI). But with just ensuring the pool water is well balanced, it should be self adjusting by looking across all the input parameters.
With all the AI advancements of recent, looks like PM would benefit from a LLM of sorts to make it intelligent.
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CSI is an indicator of corrosion or scale forming of the water. It is only a part of the overall picture.
Pool water balance calculators usually work by a variety of adaptions of the Langelier Saturation Index. This is a mathematical sum with the various inputs of pH, CH, TA, TDS and temperature in use.
As it is a sum, like all sums the values can be altered and changed to achieve the same answer e.g. 3 + 3 = 6 as does 2 + 4. This is why there is a variety of different opinions and answers across the pool chemical area. Effectively everyone can be 'right'.
Its is a good indication the CSI is in the optimal range.
Even the CSI being “optimal” isn’t specific enough. Do you have a SWCG? If so, keeping the CSI slightly below zero is beneficial. If plaster is new, keeping is slightly positive for a bit can be helpful. All kinds of variables to account for.
No amount of AI can differentiate requirements for every type of pool because the requirements would change as often as the weather.
- Jul 22, 2023
- 266
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
If every variable keeps changing isn't that what the game is then? You add x or y or z etc. That's what I've been doing but being told I should never be adding baking soda or x or y.
If the goal isn't optimal CSI then what is the goal? I am shooting for optimal everything but it takes all these chemicals to get it there so not sure what I'm doing wrong. This thread was just to see how to get some help from automation to cut down on chasing x, y or z and eliminate the purchasing of two of them.
If the goal isn't optimal CSI then what is the goal? I am shooting for optimal everything but it takes all these chemicals to get it there so not sure what I'm doing wrong. This thread was just to see how to get some help from automation to cut down on chasing x, y or z and eliminate the purchasing of two of them.
