Surge protection for Hayward VSP

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swamprat69

swamprat69

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2019
1,046
Las Vegas, NV
I am wondering how to add surge protection for newer VSP. Main Panel full with many tandem breakers. 30A pool sub panel takeoff in main panel. Pool subpanel has 20A breaker for pump/heater, 20A breaker for spa air blower and 15A SP breaker for pool lights/ GFCI outlets. Square D HOM HEDP seems that it would need an extra breaker for connection to the panel as other options for connection would result in double lugging feed to the panel. What are my options for surge protection for sub/main panel?
 
In your pool subpanel do you have two breaker positions open to install the Siemens Boltshield ?

To be effective at suppressing surges the SPD needs to intercept the surge before it gets into the device. That means it needs to be installed in the electrical panel as close as possible to the feed connections. Any SPD that is after the CBs for the devices you want to protect is not likely to be effective.

Post pics of your electrical panels so we can see your situation.

Maybe @BMerrill will have other ideas.

Electrical Surge Protection - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Photos of the pool panel will help.
The surge protector is 2 pole which requires 2 adjoining spaces located at the top or bottom of the panel when the supply power is connected.
Beside gaining spaces by using tandem breakers add an additional panel and split the load between them, upgrading the panel is an option but can be costly. Most current NEC requires SPDs in all panels of new construction.
 
Here are some photos of the subpanel and main panel. Figured I could use a square D HOM2175SB in the subpanel by changing the upper left breaker (pump/heater) to GFCI and moving to the lower right. Then installing the 2P surge protector in the upper left and putting the surge protector white wire to the neutral buss ( why no ground {green wire} on the HOM2175SB, I thought surge protectors discharged to ground )? Have seen some knockout mounted surge protectors with 4 wires ( 2 blk, 1 white and 1 green ), but it would seem that I would have to use a regular 2P breaker in the upper left mounting space to attach it to the subpanel ? As to the main panel if I wanted to add surge protection ( whole house ) there doesn't seem to be space to do anything. P.S. remote pool light switches have been changed to rocker switches as previous owner ( short sale ) did not leave the remotes. Mechanical pump timer has been disabled (on/off trips removed and left in "on" position since the VSP was installed.
 

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swamprat69 said:
Figured I could use a square D HOM2175SB in the subpanel by changing the upper left breaker (pump/heater) to GFCI and moving to the lower right.
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Good call on the gfci breaker. For the surge, I like the siemens first surge devices. An fs60 would work for the pool panel
swamprat69 said:
Have seen some knockout mounted surge protectors with 4 wires ( 2 blk, 1 white and 1 green ), but it would seem that I would have to use a regular 2P breaker in the upper left mounting space to attach it to the subpanel
Click to expand...
This is what I would do/did. I used a siemens fs140 but in your application and fs60 would work
swamprat69 said:
As to the main panel if I wanted to add surge protection ( whole house ) there doesn't seem to be space to do anything.
Click to expand...
If you wanted to do this you could replace the kitchen breaker on 13/15 with a quad (since you have tandems already I assume the panel will support a quad but check the door of the panel to be sure). Move the disposal and dishwasher from 1/3 to the new quad inner handle tied 20. Then use the existing double 20 at 1/3 for a first surge fs140.
swamprat69 said:
remote pool light switches have been changed to rocker switches as previous owner ( short sale ) did not leave the remotes
Click to expand...
These are OLD x10 switches (this was the first home automation I dabbled with ~30yrs ago lol) the remotes are available cheap on amazon though I would swap them for a couple wifi smart switches
 
Understand subpanel recommendations. Mentioned that I am not sure about main panel labelings. I am pretty sure that 1/3 is mislabeled as DW/GD should not be on a 2P breaker. Will have to wait until I can conveniently shut down main panel to dig into tape labels that seem to be on some of the runs. Hopefully 1/3 wiring is labeled so that I can tell for sure just what it is. If moving SP circuits in main panel will also need to be sure that each circuit moved is reattached to the same leg as original as I cannot be sure there aren't any shared neutrals.
 
swamprat69 said:
I am pretty sure that 1/3 is mislabeled as DW/GD should not be on a 2P breaker
Click to expand...
Actually, looking in your main panel, 1/3 may be the only one "correctly" wired under current NEC. The alternating red/black wires looks like many of your circuits are multiwire branch circuits. Current NEC under 210.4(b) allows this but added the requirement for BOTH circuits which share a neutral to simultaneously trip, hence the use of either a double pole breaker or handle tie. This is to prevent an unbalanced neutral causing issues. In my home built in 2005, NEC did not require this so I have several instances of shared neutrals without tied handles.

Replacing 13/15 with a quad you would put the existing kitchen circuits on the outside spots and move 1/3 to the inside 2 handle tied spots.
 

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Have square D HOM replacement GFCI and was wondering about the neutral connections. Understand that the neutral pigtail from the breaker goes to the neutral buss and think that no connection to the neutral buss is needed from the central neutral lug on the breaker since the original breaker is 240 volts with no neutral. Is this correct? GFCI states that "Circuit breaker must only be supplied by grounded neutral electrical systems" Does ground/neutral connection at main panel but not pool subpanel suffice? As to installing 4 wire surge protection on subpanel (blk,blk,wht,grn) as I understand it, the 2 black leads should be installed closest to the feed to the panel. With the way the panel is fed ( lower right and upper left ) and without double lugging the feed to the panel (a no-no). there is no way to get both black leads closest to the panel feed from a 2P breaker installed for this purpose. Solution??? Possible to move 2P pool GFCI breaker to upper right , move 1P pool light/GFCI outlet breaker to next to top upper left and install 1P breakers in upper left and lower right to connect to surge protector? If this would work, what amperage breakers for upper left and lower right 1P breakers? Subpanel is fed from 2P 30A breaker in main panel.
 
swamprat69 said:
Have square D HOM replacement GFCI and was wondering about the neutral connections. Understand that the neutral pigtail from the breaker goes to the neutral buss
Click to expand...
Neutral pigtail on the breaker to neutral buss. Since the pumps are 240v , there will be nothing attached to the neutral Load screw on the breaker. Make sure there are no 120v loads fed from this breaker
Note: Since you have a VSP pump, the square D gfci may not play nice nice (nuisance tripping). As i understand, the siemens qf220a or pentair breakers are recommended for vsp pumps.
swamprat69 said:
Possible to move 2P pool GFCI breaker to upper right , move 1P pool light/GFCI outlet breaker to next to top upper left and install 1P breakers in upper left and lower right to connect to surge protector? If this would work, what amperage breakers for upper left and lower right 1P breakers?
Click to expand...
based on where the feeders connect i dont think you will get an ideal install of the surge suppressor. flip a coin and install the 2 pole breaker top right or bottom right in the pool panel. I would not split the feed into 2 single pole breakers as you then could not tie the handles. You want both to trip simultaneously in the event of a surge event.
 
TY for the help. Installed HOM GFCI ( in same position as non GFCI ) and it seems to work without tripping. If intermittent false tripping occurs will change to Siemens. Will forgo the surge protector for now since installation would not be ideal.
 
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