I may have damaged my pump, or piping, or both?

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miamicuse

Well-known member
May 26, 2019
126
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
I have noticed recently one of the return line jets to the pool is releasing a lot of bubbles, almost continuously. I put my hand over the other return jet, no bubble, but no water coming out of it either. Strange. I suspect a suction side leak somewhere that is pulling air in.

So I started to turn off the suction side valve one by one to test. My set up is I have 4 lines on the suction side, SPA, SKIMMER, CLEANER and MAIN DRAIN. Then they merge into one line into the inlet of the pump, then out of the pump to the filter, out the filter to another 3 way valve, one returns to the pool one to the spa, as pictured below.

IMG_20230322_172323.jpg

I switched all the valves off then turned on skimmer only, cleaner only, main drain only, one at a time, and no difference, the bubbles continue to come out of one of the two return jets, with the other having no pressure at all.

My next step was to trouble shoot other places I may have a leak. Could be the pump strainer basket lid gasket, could be the threaded connection on the inlet side of the pump...so I wrapped some duct tape around everything just to see if I can at least get the pump to prime and rid of the bubbles. You can see in the picture below I have taped the lid and inlet connection just to see if it makes any difference. It didn't. I am going to try some shaving cream next around nearby joints next.

IMG_20230324_170700.jpg
Then something dawned on me.

A few weeks ago, I was emptying the water from the spa intending to refill it from water from the pool. I do that by turning all suction lines from the pool off, and turn the spa suction line on. My intention is once the spa is full, I turned the suction line back to main drain from pool, and set the valve on the return line to the spa to refill it.

Well that didn't happen. I got distracted by a phone call, and after I hung up I went to do other things completely forgotten about this, until six hours later...the pump was running dry for hours as the spa doesn't take even 20 minutes to empty. I felt the pump at the time it was HOT. The piping connecting to it also quite hot. I turned it off and let it cool overnight before I turned it on again. It seems to run but had trouble priming. I think the bubbles from the return jet started at that time but I am not 100% positive.

Could the pump running dry for close to 6 hours damaged the pump or the piping connecting to it to have caused air to leak into the system?
 
miamicuse said:
Could the pump running dry for close to 6 hours damaged the pump or the piping connecting to it to have caused air to leak into the system?
Click to expand...
Yes. It can damage the shaft seal on the pump. That would cause a suction side leak at the shaft seal. Look up “go kit” with your pump model. Should find a kit with shaft seal and all o-rings for a pump rebuild.

What is the make/model of the pump?
 
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miamicuse said:
It is a Haywood Super II single speed.
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Can you take pictures of all the labels on the pump with actual model #s?
miamicuse said:
Is there an easy way I can verify the pump is leaking now?
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not. The seal may not leak water, but allow air when it is running. Is there any water under the pump in the joint between the motor and pump volute? When the pump is running, does it completely fill with water after it primes?
 
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The problem is the actual model/serial number plate is no longer legible. I started a thread about this in the same forum a few weeks ago and was identified as a Haywood Super II.

I may have damaged my pump, or piping, or both?

I have noticed recently one of the return line jets to the pool is releasing a lot of bubbles, almost continuously. I put my hand over the other return jet, no bubble, but no water coming out of it either. Strange. I suspect a suction side leak somewhere that is pulling air in. So I started...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

imag1874-jpg.478396


The motor label says US MOTOR CAT NO AST165 MODEL C%%CXJMG-2155 THP 1.65
imag1875-jpg.478397


I can't read the model on this, I tried from different angles under different lighting conditions even used a flashlight and I can't make it out.
imag1876-jpg.478398


When the pump runs now, it will not prime. I can see water not filling up in the strainer basket through the transparent lid. Basically it is running half full of water. I tried filling the entire strainer basket with water still will not prime.

There is a gasket under the strainer basket lid, it looks quite worn. I was going to replace it and see if it makes a difference, I slopped some silicone grease over it and didn't make a difference. I thought if the pump is shot there is no point to buy a new gasket.
 
Curious, if I shut off ALL the suction side valves, open the pump's strainer basket lid, and fill it full of water to the top, and let it sit for a while, will that help with the trouble shooting at all?

I will check if I see water under the joint between pump and motor when running (half full of water), but I don't think so because I checked and felt all around no drips. How about spraying some shaving cream all over to see if anything sucks in?
 
miamicuse said:
Curious, if I shut off ALL the suction side valves, open the pump's strainer basket lid, and fill it full of water to the top, and let it sit for a while, will that help with the trouble shooting at all?
Click to expand...
No.

If you want to rebuild the pump, you need something like below. It includes the shaft seal. You can google "Haywood Super II go kit" and find other brands, suppliers and prices.

poolandspasupplystore.com

Hayward Super II Go-Kit2-9 Gasket Kit

Hayward Super II Go-Kit 2 Gasket Kit
poolandspasupplystore.com poolandspasupplystore.com
 
miamicuse said:
It is a Haywood Super II single speed.

Is there an easy way I can verify the pump is leaking now?
Click to expand...
Air can be pilled into the system anywhere in front of the pump as well as at a damaged shaft seal. When a pump runs "dry" that long a tremendous amount of heat is transferred to any water that is in the system. Unless the system has been drain and blown out there is always some water in it, just not enough for the pump to actually move. All plastic parts are possibilities. That means the suction port itself, the pump lid and lid O ring, the union just below the pump inlet, all the suction valves (lid and stem O rings). The drain plugs on the pump as well need to be checked and sealed (Teflon tape).
 
1poolman1 said:
Air can be pilled into the system anywhere in front of the pump as well as at a damaged shaft seal. When a pump runs "dry" that long a tremendous amount of heat is transferred to any water that is in the system. Unless the system has been drain and blown out there is always some water in it, just not enough for the pump to actually move. All plastic parts are possibilities. That means the suction port itself, the pump lid and lid O ring, the union just below the pump inlet, all the suction valves (lid and stem O rings). The drain plugs on the pump as well need to be checked and sealed (Teflon tape).
Click to expand...
You think the individual suction side valves upstream of the pump can also be damaged?

That means a lot of possibilities.

I can change out the lid gasket, reseal the drain plug (I have never removed it), and the shaft seal. But if the suction port is deformed, then the pump is basically shot right?

I wonder if I should step by step replace parts one at a time to try to resolve this, or I should buy a new pump. Meanwhile the pump won't prime and I am kind of running it anyway to keep the water circulating which I don't think it's good for the pump.
 

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It is primed, but you have a severe suction side leak allowing air into the system.

Your decision to throw parts at it, or get a new VS pump.
 
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miamicuse said:
You think the individual suction side valves upstream of the pump can also be damaged?

That means a lot of possibilities.

I can change out the lid gasket, reseal the drain plug (I have never removed it), and the shaft seal. But if the suction port is deformed, then the pump is basically shot right?

I wonder if I should step by step replace parts one at a time to try to resolve this, or I should buy a new pump. Meanwhile the pump won't prime and I am kind of running it anyway to keep the water circulating which I don't think it's good for the pump.
Click to expand...
Usually not the pump port but that standard PVC pipe adapter can easily be damaged by heat. They usually shrink and then you get air. Yes, any of those valves in the suction line can also be the source of air. Not likely the valve themselves (they are CPVC) but the O rings can get damaged.
Would never hurt to get a VSP. If it doesn't come with pump unions, get hi-temp ones.
 
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This is my new favorite for those on a budget. With the energy savings it will pay for itself this season, maybe half a season in FL. Then the energy savings will keep coming month after month.

3 HP VS pump
 
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mknauss said:
It is primed, but you have a severe suction side leak allowing air into the system.

Your decision to throw parts at it, or get a new VS pump.
Click to expand...
OK now I understand better. I thought primed means completely full of water and no air.

Like you said I could keep replacing parts, shaft seal, lid, gasket, redo this connection, that connection...and hope I see a difference. But that will be a lot of incremental time and effort that may not lead to a solution. Unless there is a way to diagnose it.

How will a VS pump be better than a single speed like the one I have? I know my pump is old. I understand it is more energy efficient.
 
1poolman1 said:
Usually not the pump port but that standard PVC pipe adapter can easily be damaged by heat. They usually shrink and then you get air. Yes, any of those valves in the suction line can also be the source of air. Not likely the valve themselves (they are CPVC) but the O rings can get damaged.
Would never hurt to get a VSP. If it doesn't come with pump unions, get hi-temp ones.
Click to expand...
I didn't know these Jandy valves are CPVC. Good to know. I assumed that since they are black in color they are in ABS. So if I need to connect to it with PVC pipe, I will need to use a PVC to CPVC adapter and special cement right?
 

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